To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

"I think there is nothing wrong with voting conservative" is fair enough.

"People on mumsnet voting labour (or conservative) can only be doing so because they are completely out of touch and don't really know what they are doing", which is more the equivalent of your OP, would lead me to think that you don't know what you are talking about.

I think that the best thing any parent can do is to encourage their child to be the best that they can be. That means supporting them, praising them, encouraging them and also acknowledging to them that you cant always win. I know children who cry when they dont win races, or competitions, or fancy dress, because the parents are so pushy that they get in a bad temper when somebody else wins and then the child is crying because they didnt win. That is not my child.

I would back my DD in anything that she wanted to do, as long as I could afford it. Sadly being a single parent means that I can't afford much, but if she had one real talent, then I would encourage her in that.

I read with my DD every day and she wins a medal every term for reading the most books. That is not me being pushy, that is me making the time to sit down and read with her every day, just for five minutes. Her friends parents dont make that time and then complain when their child doesnt get a medal. But they cant be at home reading books and out doing swimming, judo, violin, keyboard, cricket etc etc etc.

I grew up in a poor farming family and wasn't encouraged to go to college or university as my parents couldnt afford to support me. I was also very shy and filled with terror at the thought of university. I did a YTS scheme in banking, then worked in a building society, then did a 3 year college course in accountancy to get my qualification. I have never regretted anything. Working with the public gave me confidence, I was earning money and I was learning.

I think my oldest is not as independent as I used to be at his age, maybe I am a bit too controlling. But maybe it's a sign of the times, things are so different now.

I get the impression that you only started this thread to look for total affirmation of your parenting 'strategy' and are determined to filter out, ignore, or disparage any reasonable criticism. Pointless.

yes and to boast about your children.
Next!

HeadsDown, excellent posts.

Who criticised you? What did they say and in what context?

My friends and also some strangers when they see my three year old with a violin strapped to his back.

Puckertoe, in my experience, if you start very early and dc is not special needs you can bring them up to be reasonably academic. But the key is an early start.

Exactly the point i'm trying to make. Spot on.

It has to be a sustained effort from an early age. It's unrealistic to allow your child to get below average marks all their school life then expect A*'s for GCSE's.

I think the word 'pushy' has too many negative connotations. I wonder how many parents would object if the word was replaced with 'motivate'.

So instead of 'I push my kids....', it was 'i motivate my kids.....'

Because the latter is what I see I am doing. Pushing implies I am doing it against their will. In reality it's anything but.

How do you feel about parents who don't subscribe to your pushy philosophy, Clifton? Do you feel those parents didn't "try" hard enough, and are generally lacking? Do you think it's a fluke if their children excel in spite of attending a mediocre school?

I imagine you walk thru life thinking how pathetic most parents are.

it comes down to unconditional love really doesn't it? If you know that you love your children unconditionally, and you are able to show that love, then all encouragement/pushiness will pour from the wish to see them achieve their potential for their own happiness, not for yours.

If on the other hand you know, deep down, that you are being pushy to meet your own need for esteem then you have a problem. And so do your DC because you are essentially not seeing them as human beings separate from you, but as an extension to yourself .

HeadsDown, i think you are being too hard on the OP. There is nothing wrong with seeking affirmation.

boomba - I don't have any parenting faults :)

I nag my DCs to practice their instruments but since they don't aspire to become professionals, getting them to practice 30min 3 times a week is the extent of my pushy-ness.

Academically, I tell them that I expect them to put 100% effort in. They are comfortably in the top 10% so I leave them to it. Come GCSE time I'll of course be ramping up my involvement but for the time being as long as they aren't coasting then I'm happy.

Career wise I don't have any expectations. I have friends whose grown up sons live at home and earn enough doing pub work to finance their holidays and car. As long as my DCs are leading productive lives then I'm happy. That is not to say that I wouldn't be extra happy if they went onto Oxbridge followed by a highly paid and interesting job. :)

Feel free to tell me about my faults.

pickledsiblings; I suppose we all know if we have an aptitude for something or not, even children understand if they are giving something a half hearted attempt rather than just not being good at it naturally.. If They are exam age then by that time they certainly understand the difference.
As a parent I spent loads of time doing things together, enough to know that both my DC have very differing abilities and interests. DS has SNs, but was still able to go to Uni. I believe this was because we encouraged him to do what he loved doing, not what we thought he should do.
Even before they were in High School we expected them to be responsible for doing their homework, getting up in the morning, making their lunches. Without mum or dad nagging at them. They soon learnt that in order to get what they wanted they had to get off their bums and get on with it.
They didn't always do well and certainly didn't always do their best! They are normal kids, but they learnt that if they wanted something they had to work for it.
Both of them worked at Saturday jobs as soon as they were 13. Both worked on Saturdays throughout there A Levels, from choice. I trusted them to get there school work done and they didn't let us or themselves down. At 16,17 or 18 they should be getting pretty mature in my mind, most previous generations would have been out working to help the household by that age. Treating them as school kids was not a choice we made.
I left school at 15 and cycled alone across Europe at 16, I didn't see any reason that my DCs where anyless mature just because they did A levels at School.

I have no idea what your faults are

Sorry Clifton but starting a 3 year old on the violin is a little bit pushy :) This coming from someone who started DS at nearly six and the piano at 9.

Not that I think that there is anything wrong with it. Some parents start swimming lessons at that age. If that isnt being pushy then I don't see why starting the violin is.

Lljk, do you seriously think that anybody can be so screwed up to a point where they walk around feeling superior to other parents? I got friends who are both pushy and relaxed, I never felt superior or inferior to them.

I recently asked my DD to tell me if she ever thought I was pushing her too hard. She said the loveliest thing to me, 'mummy you don't push me, you walk beside me'. For me, that's enough justification. It doesn't stop me questioning if I am doing the right thing paying school fees/music lessons/sports lessons etc. I know these things aren't necessary for her to be happy in her life but they will hopefully help to keep her opportunities open so in that sense I am with the OP.

OP, in my opinion (which I don't believe you are remotely interested in, but will offer anyway since I've engaged thus far).

If you want to provide your DCs the opportunity to try enriching extra curricular, cultural and sporting activities then great. If you think they need a bit of a nudge to practise, or to do their homework, or set good habits, then great. All that stuff is great. As long as it is age-appropriate and appropriate to the needs and abilities of the child (which pushiness can sometimes ignore).

If you think that encouraging a 3 year old to take music lessons is a sure-fire way to propel them on a route to Oxford, then you are deluded. There is no way of knowing, at that age, what a child's talents and abilities will be. There is no point in trying to steer them towards pre-determined goals either - all that you can do is cater to their needs and abilities as they appear and develop.

As for the notion that life is ever so much harder now, and people have to be triple-jumping, octolingual geniuses to get into top rated universities - it's bunk. Universities have a vested interest in promoting this hype because they need to manage and maintain their prestige, and creating anxiety over admissions is a proven way of doing this. A clever kid with a genuine aptitude for the subject they are applying for still has as much chance as all the others in getting in - whether or not they can play the spoons or the bassoon - and a lot of it is blind luck.

As to whether being knowingly pushy is a good thing...you said that there's no point in referring to the worst case scenario - since it is so rare. But the best case scenario is rare too!

Thanks pickled. I am interested in education, I like to discuss it, did not know I had to justify my reasons to post on IABU, I won't try again! :)

pickled - I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with seeking affirmation, but I do think that it's very rude, and timewasting, to do so in a way which encourages open ended debate which the OP has not one iota of interest in.

niceguy my dc all have different potentials. We are years away from GCSEs so that's not an issue at the moment, but yes perhaps for my oldest dd a C at a particular subject might be what she can achieve. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I would certainly not infer that it's a 'fail' or she could have done better. If she's worked hard I would be immensely proud of her.

And even if a child is capable of getting an A* there are no guarantees. A child could be ill on the day, or be having an off day or whatever. Same with 11+. My middle dd is very academically able and I imagine she has the ability to get offers from quite a few schools she applies for. But who knows? I don't want her to be solely results driven, I want her to enjoy her learning.

I'm actually very rarely impressed by children's academic achievements. Yes it's good for them but not mind-blowing. I'm far more interested in other aspects, what they are like as people, if they've done something that's particularly kind or thoughtful etc. One of the nicest friends I had at school was in the bottom set for everything and reallly struggled academically. But she was so nice I remember her well all these years later.

I disagree strongly that all employers/universities are just looking for results. Yes results are a large part of it but the are also looking for keen, interesting people who have lots of different skills and will be able to do the job well. Much better to have someone with a 2:1 who has done lots of different things extra-curricularly than someone who has a first but has little else to offer.

You can't plan your child's futures so far ahead. You can't even assume they will go to university just because you did. I don't want to put the fear of God into my dc that they HAVE to get top grades otherwise x, y and z won't happen. I have NO idea what my dc will end up doing. There is a strong chance they will go to university but they may not. My relationship with my dc and their happiness and self-esteem are WAY more important than a string of A*s and they know that.

Heads down, i''ve read a lot of research on the topic, it always points to am early start. I remember reading that people that started music before the age 4 had slightly altered brain structure. However the brain structure in kids after 7 was not affected. That's why I started younger ones so early.

Headsdown, I am very interested in responses but I can't always formulate an intelligent answer in English and not sure if I would be able to get my exact point of view across. That's why I don't answer much.

There are some SERIOUSLY deluded people on this thread.
If you carry on pushing your kids like this they will burn out.
Sooner or later they will rebel.
You are putting them at high risk of mental illness.
Hope the pay off for being able to boast about your kids is worth it....