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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

999 replies

CliftonGirl · 03/06/2013 10:55

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

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Hamishbear · 05/06/2013 12:39

Me too Lazy Janey, I am hearing of more and more 'dead certs' who don't get into Oxbridge or get pooled.

There are thousands of applicants for a couple of hundred places or less at the best grammars - if you've not had 'pushy parenting' or an outstanding primary education you won't get in.

So many schools I know tell me that they are different in that they make learning 'fun' and everything is 'creative' unlike the 'bad' hothousing normal, run-of-the-mill too academic type schools? Thing is, at least IME, it's the creative, 'we make learning fun' ethos that's pervasive and commonplace not the other way around! And it's the creative ethos that often means you have to take things into your own hands if you want your child to excel or at least get into the coveted grammar etc. Just my opinion anyway. I can be as creative as I like at home with the children, we can dress up, do collages and paint etc but I can't deliver a high quality, academic education.

Summerblaze · 05/06/2013 12:44

I did well at school and could have easily done a degree etc. I didn't want to. It wouldn't have made me happy. I ended up with a good job anyway doing something I wanted to do and was earning much more than others my age who had been to uni.

My DH tried very hard at school but was only average in the core subjects. However he was amazingly artistic and got a job in this area. He now earns a bloody good wage, so good that I now no longer have a job and look after our dc instead.

Being able to read, write and do sums is essential. Being amazing at them obviously didn't matter in this case.

My DD is dyslexic and she put in lots of effort but can't always get the results. As long as she is trying her best, thats all she can do. How can I make her better at this. She already gets extra help. It would be like trying to get me to be a good artist.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 05/06/2013 12:44

I was just wondering, for those parents considered pushy. What happens if aged 13 the children decide they don't want to play the piano anymore or go to swimming/ballet/gym. Or they don't want to go to Oxford, or be a doctor or lawyer, and actually they want to be a plumber or nursery nurse? Is that acceptable, or not good enough, or not what you hoped?

Btw, I'm aware plumbers can earn a shed load so I'm not knocking them, and my Mum was a nursery nurse.

BoffinMum · 05/06/2013 12:45

I don't think you need to push children, in fact I think it's pointless. I do think you need to make sure they go to school regularly and pay attention while they are there, and I also think you need to keep an eye on the quality of teaching (eg get nervous if there are a lot of supply teachers). It's also good to be generous about music lessons and school trips and so on, if you can.

merrymouse · 05/06/2013 12:48

I am assuming, for all our sakes, that these mathematical geniuses were always obviously gifted and love maths, and aren't actually rather average people pushed very hard who don't really want to be there, or even very academic people who would rather be studying something else, but they ended up doing maths because their parents thought it would be a good idea.

CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 12:49

Pobblew, we just chain them to their musical instrument or drive them to Oxford to have their interviews against their will.

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wordfactory · 05/06/2013 12:52

pobble I can only speak for myself but I have gladly allowed both my DC to give up certain extra curricular stuff!

That said, I sometimes stand firm.

DS was asked to sing for the Queen yesterday, and for a number of reasons didn't want to. I pushed. And he came home over the moon that he'd done it! It will be an experience he won't forget and frankly his voice is breaking so that's that!

wordfactory · 05/06/2013 12:54

As for successful Oxbridge applicants, I do think the maths and physics departments are slightly unusual... not everyone else is a genius!!!!

But yes, there is a lot more competition. And of course it is rare to gain an offer without superlative grades.

CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 12:54

Actually I threaten DC with stopping their music lessons if they misbehave, the oldest is very talented and wanted to be a professional musician for a while.

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CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 12:55

Wordfactory, that sounds amazing! You must be so proud of him.

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niceguy2 · 05/06/2013 12:56

What happens if aged 13 the children decide they don't want to play the piano anymore or go to swimming/ballet/gym.

Personally I'd never push my kids to do something which is a hobby and entirely optional. However, learning maths, science, english etc to GCSE level isn't optional and I fully expect my children to do them all and get top marks. To me there is a vast difference between expecting good grades for education and pushing your child to do a hobby they don't want to do.

I don't think you need to push children, in fact I think it's pointless.

I disagree. Other things being equal a teenager would rather listen to music, play on the computer and surf facebook. But by setting your expectations early, ensuring they understand that a good education is crucial to their future success, I personally think that is far from pointless.

@Merrymouse. My DD doesn't even like maths. It doesn't come naturally to her and it bores her. My DS is a natural at maths. It just comes to him. But it hasn't stopped DD from getting an A so far. It goes back to my point about GCSE's not being specialist qualifications. They are foundation qualifications. And I can't believe so many believe their child can't do it.

fallon8 · 05/06/2013 12:58

There doesn't seem to be a lot of "fun" time in your house

CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 12:59

Agree with niceguy. I think ds1 previous teacher that insisted on him being in a bottom set at primary would faint if she knew ds is in a top maths set at a selective school.

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wordfactory · 05/06/2013 13:00

clifton I am very proud Grin.

Though not really about his talent (to be honest whehter you're born with a beautiful voice or a croak like a bullfrog is largely luck!).

I'm far more proud of the sheer effort and graft he has put in to be a chorister! And yes, there have been times when he's needed my foot up his arse!

But now his voice is breaking, and I think he probably won't continue afterwards. So what a high to end on!

CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 13:00

What is "fun"? I think my children have loads of fun, but I might be wrong.

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CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 13:02

Anyway childhood is such a short part of your life, but a few years of hard work can shape the rest of your life and give you options.

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skyeskyeskye · 05/06/2013 13:05

I think it is totally wrong to push your children. They will be what they will be. They are either intelligent or they are not. They are either creative or they are not. My DD is 5yo and she is a member of Rainbows. she is in a cheerleading squad and that is it. If she wants to learn a musical instrument when she is older then she can, but I am not going to make her.

I didn't go to college or University, but I am now a qualified accounting technician, NVQ4 which is equivalent to some kind of degree. I earn good money, run my own business. I am intelligent, but not creative or scientific.

I just want my DD to be happy and will certainly not be pushing her into anything. I don't care if she goes to University or not. She is a child and she needs to have fun outside of her school hours.

WilsonFrickett · 05/06/2013 13:09

I am hearing of more and more 'dead certs' who don't get into Oxbridge or get pooled

Up thread there were a lot of comments about children who had been pushed in a certain way (let's say 'over-supported' Wink) and who hadn't developed independent study skills or developed critical thinking skills - might they be included in the dead certs who didn't make it to Oxbridge?

merrymouse · 05/06/2013 13:11

I'm also hesitant to jump on the 'A-levels getting easier' band wagon. However, apparently it is easier to get an A at A-level now in a GCSE than it was to get an A at O-level, and back in the day there was no such thing as an A, just A, B or C, so I'm not sure that it's entirely accurate to say that because it now requires A to get to Oxbridge, it is necessarily harder to get there because people used to be able to get a place without straight A's.

It would only be harder to go there if more people are applying for fewer places (has there been a baby boom?) or if they are accepting more children from state schools, so people who traditionally would have got a place there don't. In which case the only people who should be worried are those who would have been relying on the old school tie.

However, I don't think it's ever been possible to just stumble into going to Oxbridge having spent your sixth form years dossing around, unless you are extremely bright, in which case all power to you.

Whichever, the admissions criteria is designed to find students who will be good to teach, not children whose parents made it their mission in life to get them to Oxbridge. If it is doing the second we are in trouble.

wordfactory · 05/06/2013 13:14

skye your view on talent seems very defeatist!

All of us can hone our skills and talents. In fact said skills and talents are pretty useless without the honing...

wordfactory · 05/06/2013 13:16

wilson I think a lot of dead certs get rejected because it's a numbers game!

No one is a dead cert!

There are just too many fabulous applicants for too few places. So many factors over which the applicant has no control might come in to play...let's not try to dress it up as a failure on the parents' part.

burberryqueen · 05/06/2013 13:17

I don't care if she goes to University or not
I like your attitude skyeskye - quite refreshing!
My daughter is planning to train as a farrier and my son is.....still deciding - but this whole hoo-hah about Russell Group unis etc etc., as if to ensure our children will be more middle class than we are, does all seem a bit...bonkers tbh.
Practical skills will go far further in the world of work than crappy degrees in this that or the other that have half killed the parents in pushing for and paying for.

Lazyjaney · 05/06/2013 13:18

"Up thread there were a lot of comments about children who had been pushed in a certain way (let's say 'over-supported' ) and who hadn't developed independent study skills or developed critical thinking skills - might they be included in the dead certs who didn't make it to Oxbridge?"

From what I've observed ( and it's a few anecdotes, not data...) it's the other way round, it's the ones who are pushed hothoused to speak 6 languages, sing opera, coached for interviews etc who are getting in while it's the really, really, really smart but less "accomplished" who seem to be getting dinged. The kids know who is really smart in their peer groups and are getting a bit nonplussed afaics.

CliftonGirl · 05/06/2013 13:19

Skye, read "Bounce".

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Coffeeformeplease · 05/06/2013 13:21

I agree, the students I know who got into Oxford or Cambridge (and I have seen quite a few in the last 9 years) were all very exceptionally bright. And well rounded and and and.

But I've also seen those who didn't get in and a few of these were equally bright.

I have no wish for my children to go to Oxbridge. If they want to, they can, and I will support them all the way. But I also tell them there are plenty of other good unis out there if they want to go to uni.

High earning and happiness is not mutually exclusive that's ridiculous.

I think bonsoir wrote how we go about making dc reach their potential. Both children wanted to learn to play the piano, they were 5 and 7, I had bought the piano for me. Ds absolutely loves it, still plays 7 years later. Dd played for 3 years, then asked to play the violin at age 10. We would never have put a violin in her hands as she is very clumsy, more than your average clumsiness. She started, loves it, is really good at it, plays in several orchestras and ensembles, has a whole different life outside school. She stopped piano lessons 3 months after starting the violin but still sits down sometimes and plays a bit. She has never dropped the violin(s) once touchwood and plays as well as those who started aged 5.

We could have easily discouraged her to start the violin. A few teachers said she will never he happy because she will never play with her age group, as there is too much catching up to do. But she wanted it. And that's enough for me to let my children try anything (within reason).
They have to want to do it for themselves, as you don't get good at anything without hard work and practice.
Of course there are times when both could practice more.

If they have to stick to something regardless it makes them less likely to try new things. And that limits their chance of finding things that they are really interested in. Things we are interested in (and we are good at) make us happy I think, and they don't have to become careers.
(waffle end)

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