To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

I don't think you can get a child into Oxbridge through pushiness (or make them excel at a sport or music or anything else).

Have never met anybody who excelled at anything who didn't have innate talent and desire to do their 'thing'. Of course parents can greatly support their children and promote a family culture of working hard, enjoying learning, putting ideas into practice, and overcoming difficulties. However, you can't push somebody to Oxbridge. They have to do that themselves.

(Having said that, if you don't think a school is providing an adequate education, it could be argued that it is your legal responsibility as a parent to fill in the gaps - I wouldn't call that pushiness though).

I have read the whole thread, Clifton - and it seems clear to me that you want the DCs to follow your DH's example - aiming for, and working in a high earning job - regardless of whether or not they enjoy it - rather than your own example - which is to prioritise other parts of your life other than earning - and take find value in work that isn't widely valued by society. I don't think that's a bad thing - but you've obviously chosen to pursue your personal happiness rather than earn money at this stage in your life. Why send such a mixed message to your DCs?

Tinbox I am doing an accountancy course. Do you really think it's my dream job?

Now stop right there a minute!!!

No slurs on accountants!

This thread is interesting. I am a teacher and found bonsoir's teacher-parent reference particularly interesting.

My dc are toddlers at present but I will take a keen interest in their education focusing primarily on literacy, numeracy, critical thinking and independent study skills.

I will ask for regular feedback from teachers and focus on areas of weakness at home.

I will limit extracurricular activities and make sure that the ones followed are those that dc are passionate about and self motivated.

I will try and expose dc to people with different careers and lifestyles. They need to make a choice about their post school education/career but it needs to be an informed choice.

As I said it is very early days for me as a parent so we will see how it pans out.

There's nothing so dreadful about being an accountant. A lot of the accountants I know find their work really interesting, actually - and some are often getting seconded to high profile projects with a real buzz around them. Others are really detail-orientated people who like getting the opportunity to to put that side of themselves to productive use in a professional setting.

So you're doing a part-time course now. But what have you been doing with the rest of your life? It doesn't sound like you were out there chasing money. If earning well and sucking up the misery of a job is such an important life lesson, then why choose to set aside time as a SAHM?

I had a very interesting job that I gave up when I married DH.

There is a popular home ed philosophy that is based on the saying 'inspire not require'.

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry!) but for what it's worth my experience is that personal motivation is the key.

My mum pushed me like crazy when I was at school and all it achieved was to make me feel very stressed. I didn't come to my own academically until I got to Uni, found a subject I liked and saw a reason to push myself (to 3 degrees and an academic career, from a very mediocre school life). The reason I am bilingual is similar, I had a personal interest, i.e. most children's books were in English when I was growing up so it was either learn to read in English or not get to read them at all, so I learn English.

As an academic I have seen quite a few students 'crash and burn' because they never learnt to relax, enjoy and pace themselves. This was especially true when I taught in the medical school where I had to deal with at least one stressed out, burned out and tearful student a month (this is considered 'normal' in medical schools). These students had always been over-achievers, more often than not with pushy parents behind them (the number one concern of the students was always how they would let their parents know that they did not want to study medicine anymore).

As a philosopher there are many accounts of what might be the good life for human beings to live, but ironically none of them include being pushed to achieve academically!

In an earlier post I asked the OP what her own interests happen to be, and whether her children witness her working at something and accomplishing it for her own pleasure. I would be interested in knowing the answers to these questions.

I'm not asking out of nosiness. I think that children learn a great deal from the example of a parent who has her own accomplishments and who takes pleasure in learning something new and developing her own skills. In fact, I would say children learn much more from this sort of example than they do from a parent who stays one step ahead of them in their French textbook.

Similarly, many parents read to their children every day and that is an absolutely fantastic thing to do and will certainly help them in school. However, there is an even stronger link between parents who read for pleasure and children who do so. If children never or rarely see a parent pick up a book, they will probably not view reading as a prized leisure activity.

The same can be said for virtually any activity. I think that learning a bit of French or music along with your children is a nice thing to do and may be helpful to them. But in the broader picture, the pursuits valued by parents (and the effort and attitude modeled by parents) will likely influence the children even more.

tinbox that is a nasty thing to say

Nasty indeed!

Tinbox - why post something like that? How unpleasant.

Eh? what has tinbox said which is offensive?

I have never reported anyone, but my fingers are itching - what do you think lottie?

Boomba

This:

"If you gave up your job when you got married, before becoming a parent then....is that an example you want your DCs to follow? Where's the accomplishment in that?"

in fact tinbox have another

Well, yes I reported it. I am not sure if MNHQ will agree - there is a fine line sometimes. But I read it as a personal attack.

What's nasty about that? We were talking about leading by example, which I happen to believe is the best way to encourage your children and help them to instill skills

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a SAHM. And I don't think there's anything wrong with not working, if you choose not to. But I do think that giving your children the message that they must aim for academic success with a view to entering a high earning profession, because earning money and professional success is extremely important, while also choosing not to work oneself is extremely confusing for the child.

The first I can remember of the "pushing" was when I was about 7 and was taken to the GP with a rash. We sat in the car park as we were early and a man in a suit with a briefcase walked into the surgery. My mum said "that is a doctor and if your grow up to be a dolly bird and stay slim you may marry one".
I ended up pretty academic but from an early age my mum had nothing but contempt for the humanities subjects and specifically pushed me in maths and science. I wanted to be a vet or an engineer but I was told "that would be letting the family down".
I came to understand what was conditional love. I was only treated nice when I did well in exams, so I worked as hard as possible to feel loved.
I ended up at Cambridge doing medicine. When I started doing well at Uni, my mum stepped up a gear. It was no longer acceptable to be a GP or psychiatrist...that was a let down. Only a brain surgeon was good enough.
I hated Cambridge. I felt I did not fit in due to my working class background and did NOT want to study medicine. I started trying to kill myself and my mum said the suicide attempts were me "playing up to get my own way".
She also told me I needed to lose weight until I became anorexic and I needed a nose job which I stupidly got.
In the end I got sectioned and ended up in psych ICU. I could no longer work as a doctor but set up a small business.
She said she "had to live everyday with the shame of having a daughter who is the village nutter" and nowadays will not speak to me. She is now dying and I have been told I can not attend the funeral.
PLEASE do NOT push children. Encourage them but the moment they say NO, listen to them and respect their views.

"Depends if you define success as going to Oxbridge"

Clearly that is an insane ambition given the tiny numbers who go there.

Any of the Top 5 will do

Report it if you like - but I don't think it's a personal attack to point out that the OP is set on instilling values and goals that they don't live out in their own lives.

oh, dont be ridiculous, thats not a personal attack

Sometimes being a SAHM is the most economical and practical option. It is economically madness to work when you have two or more small children.

There is loads of research that shows that better educated mothers make better mothers. A good education is not wasted on a SAHM.

DC are boys. Their dad is a high earner. Their mum is a sahm. They follow their dad's example - study hard, work hard, provide for your wife and kids. What is so confusing about it? In fact the oldest said that he wants his future wife to be a sahm like me and take a good care of his future kids just like I do with him and his brothers. What's confusing about it exactly?