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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

999 replies

CliftonGirl · 03/06/2013 10:55

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

OP posts:
Boomba · 04/06/2013 15:16

so 'doing a play' in 2 language is real experience in both languages but spending time with friends and family that are conversing/living/socialising in 2 languages, is just exposing them to 2 languages??

wordfactory · 04/06/2013 15:18

boomba sorry, but being able to chat with family is not bi lingual...

To me this aptly sums up much of this thread. People believe, nay they want to believe, that stuff can and should come easily.

And if it doesn't and if a child needs parental intervention, then it somehow wrong.

Wheras the reality is that many things require a lot of effort. And they might require a parent or other coach/mentor to give a push or prod when necessary.

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 15:18

Spending time with family and friends and thereby gaining exposure to a language is a necessary but non-sufficient experience if you wish to become fully bilingual. You need the full range of educational experiences in each language - school, reading, writing, putting on plays, doing sports, etc.

wordfactory · 04/06/2013 15:23

I think the only real way a DC can become properly bi lingual is if a parent basically goes over all the educational expereinces a child is having in their other language.

How else could you cover it?

And that takes a looooooooooooong time!

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 15:24

People believe, nay they want to believe, that stuff can and should come easily. And if it doesn't and if a child needs parental intervention, then it somehow wrong.

This is so common - this belief that if things aren't easy, then it is somehow wrong to work hard to achieve them. But where does it come from?

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 15:27

Bilingual schools do help a lot! Though even then you need to plug gaps.

DD's best friend, who is German, is in the same classes as her at school (French and bilingual/native speaker English) and goes to German school on Wednesdays. So she is getting schooling in three languages to native speaker level. She also speaks Chinese, but "only" maintains it with 2x3h of conversation a week (though it was her first school language when she was little). She doesn't make anything like the progress in Chinese that she does in the others.

Boomba · 04/06/2013 15:38

my oldest chil is 7, se is unable to discuss backstage theatre in any language!

she is able to discuss 7 year old stuff, equally well in 2 languages. Homework is discssed in 2 languages, beacsue she is discussing it with her father and with me in 2 different languages...why wouldnt she???

I can only assume that as the kids get older, I might have some clue of what you are talking about. Or maybe not

OrmirianResurgam · 04/06/2013 15:42

Depends what they are pushing.

I'd draw the line at crack at the school gates.

Boomba · 04/06/2013 15:42

FWIW I know illieterate adults that can speak 2,3 and 4 different language. I wuld consider them multi-lingual. Uneducated obviously. I tink you are both wrong in considering that a person should have a high level of education in a subject to be consideed bi-lingual. Would you consider an illiterate person non-lingual, because they have never been involved in theatre production/been to school in any language?

Original poster
CliftonGirl · 04/06/2013 15:46

Why mumsnet posters always wheel out the worst case scenario? When I asked a few years ago about transferring DS from state school to private I was told about mental breakdowns, entitled brats and how my child will be kicked out because obviously he won't be able to keep up. Same with tutoring for grammar school, apparently he was going to be miserable, not being able to keep up after private school, etc etc. Now I hear about all the mental breakdowns at various universities..

OP posts:
Boomba · 04/06/2013 15:49

what worse case scenario clifton?

Original poster
CliftonGirl · 04/06/2013 15:50

Dc breaking down at university, being unhappy etc etc

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/06/2013 16:08

By these reckonings, DH isn't bilingual. Which is a bugger, really, since I don't speak his mother tongue and he didn't do his degree in it, either. Fortunately, I don't think anyone would agree if they met him that he's not bilingual.

There are lots of different ways to do things, surely?

I would reckon people focus on the worst case scenario because it's scary. It doesn't mean 'this will happen, inevitably', it's just, you wish you could go back and change things so you mention it to others. Human nature is like that.

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 16:09

Illiteracy in several languages is not going to further anyone's career prospects.

Original poster
CliftonGirl · 04/06/2013 16:12

It's true, I can speak/type in 4 languages, but I never used more than one at a time.

OP posts:
Boomba · 04/06/2013 16:15

bonsoir and wordfactory Ive been thinking about what you have written some more...about the range of experiences you believe to be necessy to acheive 'bi-linguacy'

I disagree with you entirely. But what I also realised is my children do have the exposure you speak of. We do have books in 2 languags (although like I said we dont attempt writing)

We belong to a club/society set up by nationals from my husbands country. As pat of that there is a childrens club, for the purpose of bolstering their identities. They have infact put on shows/dances, we take educational trips (as any childrens club does), sports activities etc etc....

I dont conside that effort STILL...it is something we all enjoy doing, its just part of life, meeting freinds, doing stuff together, but happens to be done in their fathers language

Just because something is not 'an effort' for someone doesnt mean they arent doing it 'properly'

pigletmania · 04/06/2013 16:20

Exactly Thebody children are their wn individuals and will decide for themselves when they are older. Clifton its not to say it can't, test they are worse possible scenarios

Boomba · 04/06/2013 16:22

Illiteracy in several languages is not going to further anyone's career prospects

smooth

puckertoe · 04/06/2013 16:30

Look at the end of the day, your child will grow up and then do what they have always wanted to do. He may or maynot have gone to Oxbridge, but he will certainly reject the parent that made him do what he never felt suited to in the first place. too many parents seem to live their failures through the children. whether thats making them do some strange sport, because Parent was not selected for the first team and felt hard odne by, or that parent wanted to be a city banker but never got the grades, so pushed child to do so.
When your child is 50 and you are begining your dotage I suggest you ask your self if it was all really worth it. They won't have time to bring the grand kids to see you, or will be living at the ends of the earth, being in some important position with a global corporation. You could well be stuck in some home for the elderly or worse and wondering why you bothered.

burberryqueen · 04/06/2013 16:35

I will never forget my mum telling me a story about a local woman who was determined that her son would be a doctor, she pushed him and pushed him, in the end he came home with the required certificate, gave it to her saying "there that is what you wanted" and then left, never to be seen again.
just thought i would share that with you all.

Original poster
CliftonGirl · 04/06/2013 16:43

Burberry, maybe he worked for a year in a supermarket, decided that he was wrong, went back to being a doctor and saved a lot of lives. If he is not a fictional character of course...

OP posts:
burberryqueen · 04/06/2013 16:53

nope not fictional AFAIK, whatever he did he never went home again anyway.

TinBox · 04/06/2013 16:57

Clifton, I think there is quite a big difference between 'leading by example' and giving your children a parental role model who strives towards their own personal accomplishments in their work life and interests, and has strong interests and talents, and a parent who only tries to 'get up to speed' with a child's activity so that they can 'push' the child along. There is a big difference between learning a language for pleasure and interest and learning a language to check a child's homework.

Moreover, I would be slightly concerned about the child interpreting that behaviour as competitive. If I decided to learn the clarinet because my DC was learning the clarinet, I would only be able to 'help' them with their lessons in months and years to come if I was more competent at it than them. Kids generally learn new skills like languages and music much faster than their parents, so unless you are a latent musical and linguistic genius (doesn't sound like it) then you're not going to be able to give your kids much assistance, very soon.

I would also like to know why you have repeatedly avoided my question. If you think that a high-earning job is the goal to 'push' for (and you seem fairly clear about that), and you feel that this a worthwhile goal even if it makes you miserable - then why is it that you do not want your children to follow the example that you, yourself are setting? You have chosen a non-earning vocation - but want to give your children the message that this is a bad decision.

toomuchtoask · 04/06/2013 16:59

I haven't read the whole thread as quite frankly the thought of pushing children to succeed rather than encouraging them/supporting them annoys the hell out of me. Children aren't performing monkeys that you show off to others. They are human beings who need support not pushing to achieve. If you push too hard they will resent you and your interfering.

My parents were supportive - they weren't pushy. I have a degree and a post grad qualification. My sister turned down Oxford and has no regrets about doing this. She went to a good university that wasn't an Oxbridge University. My parents could have pushed her to go to Oxford but they knew it was her decision. She is glad she didn't go and my parents are glad she is happy.

Just be sure your ultimate aim is for your children to be happy OP not that they achieve. Hopefully the two will go hand in hand but happiness goes above achievement in my opinion. Be careful.

Original poster
CliftonGirl · 04/06/2013 17:12

Tinbox, if you read my previous posts you'll see the answers to your questions. As I said before I only help the younger ones, the older ones had overtaken me years ago, but I had helped them in the beginning and can still give them constructive criticism.

I also said my degree is useless, so I am doing a course that will help me to return to work when my youngest is at school full time.

I drive them around, help with homework, look after the house and got 4 complicated exams and a course work to finish by the end of this month. I also play with them, read and cook. Dh is wonderful and helps a lot but he is home only in the evening or during the weekends.

OP posts:
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