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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

999 replies

CliftonGirl · 03/06/2013 10:55

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

OP posts:
HabbaDabba · 04/06/2013 14:29

" ... op is not learning an instrument or another language for herself, because she wants to, she is living her life through her children and tat is not right. By doing this in this way, she is becoming too involved in her childrens lives, really it makes her look a bit silly tbh"

What a ridiculous comment piglet?

If your DC came to you and she was struggling with maths, would you Google stuff so that you could help her or would that be silly of you?

The amount of "men perspire but women glisten" posts that are on this thread makes the mind boggle.

wordfactory · 04/06/2013 14:30

Well boomba all the bilingual parnets I know (and I know a lot) put in a lot of effort.

To be properly bi lingual ie can live their life both verbally and textually in either or language requires effort.

I'm not of course talking about the lots of kids who have one main language and bit of 'homespeak' in another.

pigletmania · 04/06/2013 14:34

Your pushing him too young Clifton, he is only 3, so little. Does he have a chance to enjoy himself like a average toddler? Yes he may be a mini Mozart now, but come back in 10 years time!

pigletmania · 04/06/2013 14:38

It true really Habba. If my dd is learning the piano, I would not learn te piano as well as its not an instrument I would want to particularly learn, I would prefer the saxophone instead. I will start to learn that I think

Boomba · 04/06/2013 14:40

*wordfactory most of the children I know, are at least bi-lingual. I have never encountered any that have had to put effort into it. Other than in the early days, ensuring that each parent uses a seperate language to avoid confusion (if both the languages are spoken at home)

My children are fluent. They only write in English; 1 is too young and doesnt write anything. the other is dyslexic and so we havent even tried writing in anything other than English.

The 3rd language isnt a written language

Original poster
CliftonGirl · 04/06/2013 14:43

Of course he does! All my kids have a lot of fun, they also enjoy music, I don't force them (usually) to practice.

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 14:45

I know masses of plurilingual families (not just mere bilinguals like us Grin) and it is always very time-consuming to ensure that DC grow up not just understanding and speaking, but also reading and writing, at native-speaker level in all their languages. In fact, I don't know any DC who at my DD's age (8) are "full-spectrum monolingual level" in more than two languages. Some can read and write in three or four, but only badly. It takes more time than they have available to maintain native-speaker level in 3+ languages. But some of them, through hard work and persistance, will get there by the end of formal schooling.

pigletmania · 04/06/2013 14:49

That's good. I lived in a cul de sac with a chineese family. The kids were never allowed out to play, and had to practice their instruments or do their work. The youngest boy rebelled and got into a bad crowd and drugs. Not saying it will definitely happen, but children can burn out or loose total motivation all together. Of course you have to generally encourage and help your child, it's part of being a aren't but I will not let it rule my life how I was doing before dd was dx with sn

wordfactory · 04/06/2013 14:50

Bonsoir I think people bandy the word bi lingual too freely.

What they usually mean is a child who has a main language and can use 'homespeak' in another.

People sometimes call my DC bi lingual, but they are not! I wouldn't even say they were fluent. Very proficient at best.

Because their expereince and vocabulary is very extensive in their mother tongue, it would take huge efforts to match it in their second language.

pigletmania · 04/06/2013 14:52

My hopes and dreams for an academic future for dd vanished when sh was dx with ASD, I have had to change my outlook and hope that she leaves school with some qualifications and gets into a vocation tat she enjoys and can live independently.

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 14:55

wordfactory - I know! My DD really is bilingual (has two mother-tongues and is strong native-speaker level in both - she can do anything she can do in French in English and vice versa). It has been a lot of work to get here there - not so much intensive work, as a long slog and lots of foresight and gap-filling.

thebody · 04/06/2013 14:55

Depends if you define success as going to Oxbridge.

I define successful patenting as having grown up kids who are achieving their own potential, happy and good citizens.

PrettyKitty1986 · 04/06/2013 14:55

I feel really sorry for hot-housed kids. I feel even sorrier for those that have parents who push and push academic subjects and neglect sports and art etc.

My dc are 5 and 3. ATM they both have swimming lessons, are learning the piano (no official lessons yet...we have books and beginners guides and i am learning at the same time as them which is actually really fun) and I'm doing advanced maths with my 5 year old.

The aim should always be to open up opportunities for them IMO by playing to their strengths and interests. Not to force them into activities or interests that don't suit them.

Some kids won't be capable of A* grades in all subjects, however hard they try. Parents that refuse to accept that will make their kids miserable IMO.

pigletmania · 04/06/2013 14:58

That is what I want Thebody her to reach her full potential whatever that may be

Boomba · 04/06/2013 15:00

well, I dont know how you and your friends 'teach' your kids languages. But mine speak English with me, second langue with dad and 3rd with paternal grand parents. Maybe you would consider their 3rd language 'homespeak' but as it is not a written language, that would probably be hard to assess

every other child I know who is bilingual, has grown up speaking 1 language with one parent and the 2nd with the other parent

OR

they speak 1 language at home and the other at nursery/school

I have never heard any one express that it requires effort; othe than remembering not to confusethe languages when the children are young. And, also that often their children speak later than kids with 1 language only

But YY, of course, my kids cant be proper bi-lingual can they because I havent had them 'tutored' or 'hothouse' or 'assessed', I havent had to put in enormous effort and sacrifce Hmm

Coffeeformeplease · 04/06/2013 15:02

My children are bilingual and yes, it is effort. We have the advantage of having our mother tongue exclusively at home, and English all around us.

My older children speak, read and write age appropriately in both languages. And I think this is because they only came to England when they were 3 and 5, having had an exclusive environment in their first language. And because we do everything to keep it going (with books, Dvds, etc)
They do holiday camps abroad amongst peers where they keep up to date with their mother tongue.
Is that pushy? Wink

I'm sorry if it came across bitchy, but learning a foreign language purely for the purpose of being able to correct homework strikes me as odd. And I'm a language teacher.

wordfactory · 04/06/2013 15:03

I take my hat off to you bonsoir.

It's hard graft! And requires a lot of vigilence, even at the very proficient level that my two are at.

Recently we realised we know no vocabulary for things in the theatre. Backstage, spot light, wings, scenery...

HabbaDabba · 04/06/2013 15:04

It didn't take long for the 'Chinese family' anecdote to be wheeled out :)

niceguy2 · 04/06/2013 15:05

but supposing you were a keen gymnast and your dc had no talent above the average: would it be reasonable to insist that she had to make the Olympic team and to keep asking her why she hadn't passed selection?

OK...you are taking my point to the extreme. We're talking about a secondary education here. GCSE's are hardly olympic standard qualifications. They are basic building blocks. Each GCSE gives you a mere foundation in that subject.

So using your analogy would I be unreasonable to expect my child to be able to do a couple of basic moves after 11 years of full time education? Should my mindset be "Oh never mind...you are not a natural."?

When my DD specialises (as she is doing), she's chosen subjects she's strong at and wants to do. What's wrong with the same principle? Excel at what you do? I haven't pushed her to make her choices. She made them. She's not even going to the college I want her to. But her logic for choosing her college is sound so I respect her decision.

We're not talking about expecting my child to be the next Wayne Rooney at football or Steven Hawking at physics. We're talking about parenting them to 16 and expecting them to get a damn good grade at GCSE. Why is that unrealistic?

Jeez, nowadays if you fail a module at GCSE you get to have another go! I fail to understand how so many kids leave without passing everything, let alone all A's!

wordfactory · 04/06/2013 15:06

boomba what you are describing is expsoing your DC to two other languages.

That is a wonderful thing. Of course it is.

But it aint tri lingual.

thebody · 04/06/2013 15:09

Absolutely piglet.

For some kids going to uni, achieving a first etc is what is going to make them happy successful adults while others meet their full potential and happiest working in a shop/or starting their own business.

You can't really hot house kids anyway after a certain age as if its not what they want to do they just eventually say no.

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 15:09

LOL. DD is so lucky - she is doing a play in French with her class teacher (L'Oiseau Bleu) in a real theatre on 17 June, and a play in English (Peter Pan) with her Wednesday theatre club on 26 June. I completey agree - children need to have experiences in both languages in order to master the vocabulary.

Boomba · 04/06/2013 15:09

YY, sorry my mistake...my children cant speak to their father, his family and friends in his mother-tongue at all, or their grandparents neither. How silly of me.

HabbaDabba · 04/06/2013 15:09

"learning a foreign language purely for the purpose of being able to correct homework strikes me as odd "

But learning a foreign language just for no other reason than because it is something to do in the evening is ok? Hmm

I personally wouldn't but then thats because I'm lazy not that pushy but I don't think that is it is odd. No more odd than my friend who follows football just so that she can involve herself in her DH's passion.

Coffeeformeplease · 04/06/2013 15:16

Habba if it was chosen just to have do have something to do in the evening it was at least chosen over other languages because the particular language was appealing, or may come useful in holidays or or or.