To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

niceguy - i seriously doubt that dd1 is under any illusions that she doesn't need to work hard. But, at the end of Y13 I think it would be extremely unsupportive of me to keep expecting A* grades when all the evidence is that she will not get them. These grades are not available to everyone if only they worked hard enough. And this is not writing her off an unacademic - I think B grades put her easily in the top half of the population and probably a much narrower group than that. And academic results are not the only measure of success. I'm quite sure she will be successful - she has a excellent gap year lined up including a paid internship (and of the 5 she applied for she was interviewed by all and offered 4).

@Bonsoir I did read awhile ago that the best predictor of going to Oxbridge was living in Oxbridge. I cant possibly believe it has anything to do with mummies and daddies who are lecturing at the Uni already, so it must be something about the air :)

On the A* or bust thing, my kids have a mix of abilities (different intelligences I call them) so you need to praise/help them in what they can do well at.

Plus there is pushy and pushy, I was "pushy" when kids were younger and we lived in a low expectations area, now we are in twee middle class suburbia I realise I was a pushiness amateur!

I agree MrsWobble that by Y13 if her target is a B then expecting an A* may be unrealistic.

But my attitude starts from the moment they go to school. With my stepson I expect him to be at the top end of the class. I expect him to be way above average and if he's struggling with his spellings, reading, whatever then we work at it. We come back to it if he gets bored and frustrated. If he can't spell a particular word then I try to work out why. Is it some phonetic he hasn't grasped?

The idea is that if you keep them at the top from an early age, they continue to develop at that level. If you leave them to bimble along then kids are kids. They'll prefer to play and watch TV. Then clearly kicking up ten gears in high school isn't going to work since they're realistically not going to go from C student to A*. They could....just not likely.

Some people think it's academic above all else. It's not. My kids all have a good social life. DD finished her English GCSE today, she off shopping then to her boyfriends later and won't return probably until bedtime. Fair play to her. Work hard, play hard. My DS (11) is same, he went out after school yesterday and didn't come home til after 8.

It is easily balanced but it has to start from an early age.

My next door neighbour has a son who finished his GCSE's last year. His parents are very clever, as is he. But their attitude was "If he tries his best then it doesn't matter what grade he gets." He did OK. Not enough to get to do his A level biology which he wanted towards his dream to be a vet.

I asked him a very simple question. "With hindsight, did you do your best or could you have tried harder?" His answer was as I expected for a 16 year old lad. "I could have easily put more effort in and I wish I did now."

DC1 is excelling academically and is encouraged and congratulated on her achievements. DC2 is doing well academically and is encouraged and congratulated on his achievements. Both will have the same encouragement and support and I expect both to work hard and do their best.

DC2 has a room full of football and ballroom trophies. He receives support and encouragement for his sporting abilities and so does DC1, despite her lack of ability on the football field.

I push my children to do their best and not let themselves down.

"my db is not a failure because he does a manual job.....where would be the advantage in him feeling that he had failed because he had not achieved what his parents might have expected?"

Sorry cory but it sounds like you are projecting. I mean, I haven't noticed anyone making that point on this thread.

Sure I would like my DCs to go university (Oxbridge would be great :) )But that does not mean that I consider manual workers or non grads as 'failures'. I doubt many other 'pushy' parents would think so either.

Completely agree Habba. Manual work is not a 'failure'. If that's what my kids WANT to do then fantastic.

But I want them to choose that out of many options ahead of them. Not to fall into it because they haven't had the education they needed and the results required to do something else.

Education gives them life choices.

niceguy I don't know why people get it into their head that high achieving DC have no free time!

All the ones I know seem to still play footie, eat crisps and watch crap American telly.

Self -actualisation is the only real measure of success.

Pushy mums brace yourself for the backlash!!

xylem didn't Maslow say he'd only met around twenty people who were self actualised (apart from himself )?

In which case, not many of us are going to be!

havent read the whole thread...but from your first posts

I dont see how doing an instrument and you learning French is in way way improving your kids prospects

that sounds more pretentious, than useful?

word - For DD I download Revenge and Glee for her to watch on her phone on the way to school. Its all about time management (and fibre optics broadband :))

The thing I don't get right. For those who are of the it's wrong to be pushy group, does that apply to everything or just education?

So for example a couple of years ago, my DD who was then 14 had a bad experience catching a bus so had decided to never get a bus again since she clearly can't do it. I didn't accept that. We talked about it, she explained why. She was adamant she just couldn't do it. I worked out where she went wrong and how she could avoid that in future. What she should do in an emergency etc. She was still refusing. So my fiancee and I pushed her. My fiancee got the bus with her rather than drive. Later I got a friend to go with her. In short we refused to accept her answer that she can't do it. It's now second nature to her.

Ditto with cooking. She couldn't cook. Messed dishes up, they were undercooked, tasteless to begin with. But we refused to let her off the hook. Now she cooks for herself without thought and once a week does a family meal.

My point is that 'pushiness' isn't just saying "You shall get an A or you are a failure". It's more about "Look....why can't you get that A? What's stopping you? Can we fix it and then you should be able to aim for it?" It's refusing to let them give up and pigeonhole themselves.

In fact, it's just good parenting to me. Not pushiness. I'm actually quite aghast at the idea that having high expectations for your children is somehow wrong.

Boomba your comment made me laugh.

I check that homework is done. We have a rolling list of things that need to be done on the family noticeboard. I am available to help if asked. I glance over it, and if it looked scrappy or rushed I would probably suggest they did it again. I see no point in marking homework. Can't see how that does anyone any good.

"I dont see how ..... learning French is in way way improving your kids prospects

Spoken like a true Brit Who needs a MFL when everyone speaks English eh?

"... doing an instrument ... sounds more pretentious, than useful?

Nice to see that you have an open mind Various studies have shown that music helps develop young minds.

Habba my kids are tri-lingual

in what way is French useful really? Chinese or Arabic maybe

"In fact, it's just good parenting to me. Not pushiness. I'm actually quite aghast at the idea that having high expectations for your children is somehow wrong."

Nobody is saying that. But a high expectation may not be an a* for every child.

What you're talking about with buses and cooking isn't pushing- it's parenting!

French is pretty useful when you live in France, as an awful lot of British people do these days. Or travel there regularly for work or leisure.

oh ok then...if being a 'pushy parent' means having aspirations that your kids will eventually live in France...

Boomba Ds1 is going to study Latin next year. Following your logic I should discourage him because nobody uses it anymore.

Habbadabba- learning French alongside your child is fantastic. I have leered lots of things alongside mine, and it's wonderful.

Learning French for the express purpose of checking homework is not OK. And in my experience, unrealistic. Anything I have learned with my children, they have quite quickly outstripped me, and would be much more capable of checking my homework than the other way round!

Positive armies of straw men on this thread!

What exactly is the problem with learning something with the express purpose of checking homework?

I studied astronomy as a part of my degree. Should have known better, I don't travel to space, what a waste of time!

"in what way is French useful really? Chinese or Arabic maybe".

I'm supprised that Chinese and Arabic gets a "maybe" from you but French gets a .

All the Chinese and Arabs that I deal with speak perfect English and their is no expectation that you speak their language. The same could hardly be said for the French.

Incidentally, my French speaking English friend is a senior finance guy with a French luxury brand. Would he be in that position if he could speak French? I doubt it.

Anyway, if your attitude is why learn an MFL what are you doing with tri lingual children? Also, isn't it a bit like some Oxbridge grad going - what does it matter which uni kids go to?