To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

But I check all homework,you don't know weak spots unless you do.

I agree on the value of checking homework for weak spots. Frankly, the teachers never analyse the weaknesses as well as one does oneself and spot intervention is incredibly helpful.

i've read this thread with interest but would be particularly interested to know how old the children of the self confessed pushier parents are. In my experience there is a massive difference between motivating/encouraging/pushing (choose whichever you prefer) at primary school age and teenagers and I wonder how much some posters' views reflect this.

My eldest two are in years 13 and 12. The younger is far more academic than the elder so it would be very unfair - and very damaging to the whole family - to adopt the "B is a fail" approach. For dd2 it would be a disappointing result, but for dd1 it would be excellent. And I see no reason why dd1 should be left feeling that we are less proud of her or pleased with her success. So we have focused on the "your best is good enough" message. And this does not seem to be a recipe for coasting - they both know what their best could be and appear to be working hard.

And I speak as an Oxbridge graduate who would dearly love my children to go to my old college (which was also my father's), but I have never said this to them because I know that even if they are bright enough, which might be true of dd2, there is such a lottery element to getting a place that no amount of effort or hard work can guarantee it. And I have no wish to increase their disappointment but making them responsible for mine as well.

word I'm starting to reach that conclusion as well :)

My DS is a talented violinist. He chose to take up lessons himself and he is continuing by choice as opposed to parental pressure. However, being a typical boy he would rather play on the PC than practice. Sometimes when its a wet winter Saturday morning he would plead to miss orchestra so that he could have a sleep in.

Being a 'pushy' parent I insist that when he gets home from school he does violin practice before he logs onto the PC. As for dodging orchestra, only if blood is pouring from his eyes :)

As for academics, DS found primary school not particularly challenging so I would put together 'homework' that would challenge him.

IMO this is the level of pushy-ness practiced by most so-called pushy parents as opposed to what can only be described as the mentally and emotionally abusive style that the posters like to hang their arguments off.

In anycase, a lot of parents are pushy even if they would not define themselves as such. I mean, if you do extra reading at home then, compared to some other parent, that makes you pushy. If you bug your DC to do his homework then you are pushy. If on a cold and wet Saturday morning you insist on DS attending soccer practice then you are pushy etc etc.

During the 2012 US presidential elections a commentator made an interesting point in response to accusations that Obama was a socialist which was that most Americans are socialist. If you believe in a progressive tax code, Medicare and Medicaid then you are a socialist. It's just a case of what shade of red you are.

Likewise with parenting, most parents are pushy. It's just a question of how pushy.

But if you check all homework, doesn't that mean the teacher doesn't know the child's "weak spots"? And you're not there to check class work or exams.....

Interesting thread.

Bonsoir , I was just wondering the other day if there had been any research done on the educational outcomes of teacher's children - hadn't got around to looking yet.

I have my own theory that knowing the job of a teacher i.e. what goes on behind the scenes, so the preparation and planning and differentiation etc. may encourage a 'better' attitude to learning/schoolwork in a pupil.

I even wondered about the merits of making what teachers 'do' (so that they can do what they do in lessons) explicit in some way. Certainly for my children, knowing the effort that goes in to their lessons makes them more respectful of the whole learning process that goes on at school.

The only purpose of identifying weak spots is to ensure they are filled before exams!

DH always checks DS1 maths homework. If he gets something wrong DH never tells him where is the mistake, just sends him back to redo it. If he struggles, DH explains the subject in depth and sets extra tasks for the subject. Ds is in a top maths set, always gets 100% on homework, but scores very well during the tests too, so it must be working.

seeker - I love the way you sneak your disingenuous remarks in under the guise of a 'genuine' question

Checking homework or exercise books ( if the school sends them home) is standard practice in France. If DC haven't grasped something after the time allocated to it in the curriculum, it is parents' responsibility to bridge the gaps.

No problem being a pushy parent if you push your children to do something they might otherwise pass over, when you're in the position of having a wider view on this. I pushed DS2 into playing a brass instrument, because I knew he'd be capable and I knew he'd enjoy it. Problem was when the opportunity arose, he didn't realise this himself. I pushed him into doing it and he's taken to it like a duck to water, enjoying it very much (much to the disgruntlement of the neighbours at times).

The important thing is to encourage your children and open up opportunities they might not be aware of to them.

If you continue to be the driving force behind them, that's not good. Students who don't cope so well at Oxbridge are the ones who get there purely on hard-work and being pushed, rather than on genuine interest in their subject, ability and having outside, non-academic, interests too.

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with your level of pushiness HabbaDabba. Your son is doing something he genuinely wants to do and only wants a little support against the natural laziness that afflicts us all from time to time. It's what any caring parent would do.

But I have also known parents who insisted in believing that their children had to be talented musicians, or at least good musicians, when this was evidently not the case, simply because a sibling was or because the parents themselves had dreamt of a career in music. They were not cold or unpleasant people; they just couldn't see what was under their noses because they were so taken up with their own dream.

seeker, I tend to get the DC to write a note next to questions that they have had help with to alert the teacher to the fact that it may be a weak spot

The younger is far more academic than the elder so it would be very unfair - and very damaging to the whole family - to adopt the "B is a fail" approach.

I understand your point but the other side of the coin then is you've set different expectations for your kids. One is deemed to be academic so he/she is expected to do well. The other is deemed not to be so lower grades are accepted. Is that not damaging to the eldest? To set lower expectations?

I totally get that some people are more academic than others but doesn't that mean that those which are not need to try that bit harder? I simply don't understand the notion of accepting lower grades and saying "Well done, you didn't get the grades to get into college to do the course you wanted. But that's all we expected from you. After all...you are not academic"

I always make a note if I've had any significant input,not often tbh.

Kids aren't born putting good effort into homework.I think too often we throw up our hands and say oh they don't want to.At some point they are going to have to.Better a drip,drip approach than last minute WW3 imvho.

Some kids develop later and writing them off as 'not academic' is a huge mistake.

Habba - you are right, parenting is a spectrum and we all fall on it somewhere.

Purely anecdotally (secondary teacher myself), I have observed how well colleagues children have done and it's probably a combination of high expectation, detailed knowledge of what skills are expected at each stage and also, I would wager, a working knowledge of how teenagers work (or not!).

Having said that, I also know colleagues whose children struggled (though they worked their socks off) and who have crashed and burned at uni but they tend to be the minority.

Bonsoir, its not that teachers dont flag up all weaknesses because they dont see them, we simply dont have time to for each pupil! Also, absolutely covering a page in red pen is very demotivating for pupils. Far better to address these weaknesses systematically over the course of the year by say, focusing on 3 things to be improved on the next piece of work, and changing targets appropriately as improvement happens.

Disclaimer *on phone and ina hurry, I know about the typos!

OP it is ok imho to learn French with them because YOU want to learn it. But you want to have control over every aspect of their school life by being able to check their French. How about letting them take some control?

It's ok if they know mummy isn't brilliant at everything.
I tell my children what I can help them with, my dh can help with other subjects, some subjects we can't help as we haven't got a clue.

At the beginning of the school year we went through a phase of "we have to check what they're doing" and checked their homework. After 3 days my year9 child blew a fuse as she isn't used to being constantly asked to present her work for scrutiny by us.
She asked what was wrong with they way she works, she's never handed in homework late, her grades are very good, so she told us basically to back off which we did
Because we want her to come to us if she has a problem, and she does.

These days our pushy

Oops. Clicked POST too soon.

These days our pushy-ness is mostly restricted to chasing them to practice their music. As long as they get reasonable marks in tests and homework then we are happy to leave them to it. However, when GCSE approaches no doubt we will ramp up the pushy-ness once more.

Its funny what people are saying about the parent learning French so that she can check her DC's homework. I have a half formed idea about teaching myself DC's GCSE subjects so that I can help them when the time comes. Too pushy? :)

By the way the French course I am planning to take is an evening course organized by his grammar school and it runs on the school premises. I bet I am going to meet there some of his classmates parents.

coffee I've taken an interest in all manner of things to help my DC or because they were interested in them!

I don't see how that could be a problem!

DC usually see it as a positive interest in their lives and sometimes I benefit too!

clifton

DC's schools often have evenings held by various departments to keep parents in the loop. To help us help our DC.

I recall the music department at primary level being very good at this.

And yes, they're always packed .

niceguy, my solution would be that both children should be taught to work hard- being gifted doesn't mean you will never need to make an effort in life!- but once they have worked hard they should both be allowed to be pleased with what they have achieved, even if one had got further than the other

you don't have to write them off at an early age as not academic; that is clearly not a good idea

but it would be nice if a child who had worked hard and received respectable results didn't have to write himself off as a failure either

my db is not a failure because he does a manual job; it suits him, enables him to support a family and is a useful job that needs to be done

where would be the advantage in him feeling that he had failed because he had not achieved what his parents might have expected?

I think the expectation for children to be happy is far more fanciful than planning for them to attain professional success.

No one is happy all the time. It is a very normal and well adjusted child who can feel and express fear, anger, wonder, irritation and anxiety just as easily as joy. To expect your child to always feel happy is to set them up to fail.

On the other hand, to teach them to think critically, explore interests, work hard and to respect themselves and others, is quite a reliable recipe for success.