To think that there is nothing wrong with being a "pushy" mum

[CliftonGirl]

Just that really. I used to be a "relaxed" mum with DS1 which I regret, but thankfully I switched to a "pushy" mode when he was in year four. As a result he moved from a bottom-middle set to a super selective grammar and doing brilliantly. I am very pushy with the younger DCs.

I've noticed a lot of people on mumsnet think that we are still in the 20th century and you can get to Oxbridge from a mediocre school without much effort. AIBU to think that the world is much more competitive now and there is no choice but to push DC to achieve?

Ps, English is not my first language, so please don't flame me for the spelling mistakes.

I'm not sure you can dissociate the coldness and the pushiness in some families. What they do is achieve, at the expense of all else.

I am surprised by how many agree that you should lead children by example yet I got ridiculed for taking music and French lessons. If this is not leading by example then I don't know what is.

Clifton - people talk crap! They don't push themselves and they don't push their DC.

You weren't ridiculed by me, Clifton: I think it sounds an excellent idea. That's the problem with MN: we are all different.

There is a doctoral thesis examining why, in France, teachers' children are the academically most successful of all which has been widely reported in the press. I have read it and it is a fascinating exposé of the family variables which make for school success (albeit in the French cultural and institutional context). Private cultural consumption by parents within the home (reading, playing music etc) is correlated with their children's academic success. Reading for pleasure and playing an instrument are, together, the most useful activities a child can undertake in free time to boost school performance.

Whenever the subject of private education is raised, there is no shortage of posters turning up to post about snobby parents, drug taking, patronising HMs, arrogant and entitled children etc. In reality, away from the 'posh' public schools and the Chelsea crowd, the majority of indies/parents/children are rather ordinary.

But it seems easier to build an argument against private education if you make the extreme examples the norm.

Likewise with the subject of so called pushy parenting there is no shortage of stories about nervous breakdowns, mental abuse and the resulting low self esteem. Like with private education, in reality, most parents who define themselves as 'pushy' are quite ordinary in their pushy-ness. But, like the private education debate, it seem that many people prefer to hold up mentally abusive parents as the norm and to hang the let chijdre

Just scanned the thead so apologises if i've missed anything vital, but some of this is terrifying. A B is a failure? You are setting yourself and your kids up for a whole world of pain there! The emphasis on Oxbridge is also worrying.

I don't mind encouraging, giving them books to read, taking an interest in what they are interested in but I really, really don't think pushy parenting is the way forwards. The only way to be successful is because you want to be i'm afraid, not your parents. Constant pushing might get them onto a medicine course, but they aren't going to stay there unless they want to.

There's nothing wrong with being a hairdresser/plumber/builder anyway, not everyone wants to be some high flying professional and neither should they. DD was very bright, she chose not to go to university, and that's fine by me.

... the let children be children argument on this stereotype of a 'typical' pushy parent.

As an academic, I see some amazing instances of students coping with adversity and pushing themselves to do things you wouldn't have thought possible. Some of them come from very unpromising backgrounds. With others you can see how much help they are getting from attitudes they learnt as children.

Sadly, I also see the fall-out of students failing to live up to their families' expectations: breakdowns, suicides, the terrible fear of your family finally finding out that you cannot live up to their expectations.

Plagiarism cases, too, generally have a background of somebody having been pushed into an education that is simply too much for them. Ime very few students cheat because they are hardened liars (I have possibly known one or two in my entire career). Usually they cheat because disaster stares them in the face- and they have been taught to define disaster in very narrow terms.

Some of these students have clearly been greatly loved- but never allowed to accept their own limitations. Looking at some of them, it's as if you took the average clumsy school child and forced them to train for the Olympics.

Of course you should encourage your children to aim as high as they can. But that involves knowing your children, being interested in them as people rather than in some abstract idea of what my child should be like. Recognising that they are all different.

And teaching resilience rather than "everything you do has to be successful".

Note that I do not say that most of the parents of students who collapse have been mentally abusive. I am sure they haven't. All I mean is that they have concentrated so much on success that they have forgotten about dealing with failure.

Cliftongirl, I think learning together with your children is a lovely thing to do. Apart from setting an example about learning through life, it is useful to be reminded of the effort and occasional difficulties of learning a new skill so that we can empathise with any struggles our children have.

Basically my 3 need jobs they enjoy and the money to live and lead a comfortable life.

I am telling them they have all the ingredients- good brains,supportive parents and resources but the rest is up to them,nothing will be handed on a plate ie they have to learn their tables,do their homework without fail to the best of their ability,get a good nights sleep,try their best,pay attention etc,etc

They will need to pass some kind of exams whatever they chose to do and doing exams takes training,hard work and effort.They know that.

To many this is pushy,to me it's parenting and preparation.

'Never allowed to accept their own limitations'
This idea seems to have grown along with the notion that we can achieve whatever we (our parents?) want if we only work hard enough. I think it is encouraged by some of the superficially successful-seeming roles current in society.

Bonsoir how interesting.

I wonder if the addition of extra curricular cultural activitries has such a huge impact because the French education system is a little...ahem.. rigid? That by opening minds to things less grey, DC become more adept at the grey?

Why teachers should be the best placed to do that it an interesting question in itself.

Here in the UK where the education system has all the bells and whistles, and, some might argue too little of the grey stuff, perhaps the opposite might be true?

Remote: MN is full of threads from mums about lazy teenagers or teenageers that won't study for their GCSEs or teenagers who coast academically because they harbor dreams of making it big in the pop industry so what do they need with GCSEs? Then there was the post from the mum of a DS who wanted to be a mechanic and couldn't see the need for a GCSE English.

These mums got lots of advice about getting their DCs to study. Apparently this is not them being pushy .

Habba whenever anyone choses to do somehtinmg differently, or to a different standard, people become defensive.

They become especially defensive when it comes to their DC.

So they fall back on the tried and tested methods of attack:

1. State that said actions are damaging.
2. State how you feel sorry for the DC in question.
3. Produce extreme example in support.

Wordfactory - teachers also have the most evolved parenting style of all French families, which also seems paradoxical, given how old-fashioned schools are! But apparently teaching style and parenting style are not analogous.

Bonsoir, how does their parenting style differ from French parents who are not teachers?

I think the reading/ music combination must be true everywhere, not in France alone?

Cliftongiirl- my issue was not with you learning French alongside your children. I think that's a fantastic idea. My issue is that you are learning French in order to "check their homework"
Two very different perspeectives!

I'm afraid you'll have to read the thesis! Hundreds of pages in French!

C'mon bonsoir!

Give us the edited highlights. Top five things teachers do differently .

Well I might just be able to puff my way through the French. Is is online? (Though an edited highlight would be good!)

No. I am competitively keeping them to myself

Am also on my phone which is not conducive to long posts!