To think that a 4 year old is too old for nappies?

[TheSeventhHorcrux]

Old charge of mine, a month or two away from starting school. He wore a nappy 24/7 and never used a toilet/potty. Ever. He would do at least one MASSIVE poo a day, would never say when he had gone or that he needed to go. It was only until the smell hit you or you noticed it coming out of the top of his nappy... (I'm talking a too-big for nappy job, always very soft.(TMI sorry!) When I changed him I always had to stick him in the shower it was so messy and it STANK)

Parents not bothered, I was only temp PT so i couldn't train him though I tried to encourage him to tell, use a potty etc.

AIBU to think a 4 year old shouldn't need a nappy during the day?

(he doesn't have SN)

It's no fun trying to change huge children in a tiny space though, especially when you are gagging due to the smell. Our nursery has no changing area, just a mat to put on the floor. Yes, that is allowed, before people cry 'OFSTED'.

Bunty I find it safer to change babies and more so toddlers on the floor.

So did I McNew, at home, but some of our children in nappies are as big as the floor space available, I have to crouch over them. It isn't nice and I often wish parents would make the effort to toilet train.

Altinkum "The averae age if a child to be potty trained is 8 years of age, and that's with no SN"

Would you care to provide any support for this assertion? Because that may be one of the most unbelievable things I have ever read, and I used to be fascinated by 'aliens'.

Bunty, I am one of those parents. I have tried everything, believe me. I really don't appreciate being judged to have not tried when that is not true at all.

I agree tinypumpkin, a judgypants reception teacher sent me into despair about this issue. It's horrible and sometimes there is just no reason for it. Also, going back to what a previous poster said, previous generations started school later and there were often two intakes. I was five, nearly six when I started school. My dd had just turned four when she started school.

I think perhaps disposables are an issue,
However my DS wears cotton pants at home and could wet himself 3 times in a row and just sit there, at night he will just wet himself and not murmur all night, he will not ask for potty/toilet , what can I physically do?

My nan had a potty /highchair you don't see those anymore ? I think it would be good to bring them back.

tinypumpkin i know how you feel. we felt like we'd tried everything too. I could write a dissertation on it! I read loads of books. Washed loads of poohy pants for months. We had reward charts. toys for distraction. made her change self when wet (that actually helped). reading books on the loo. bought books for her to ready about pooing on the loo. showed her how to do a poo on the loo. used blackmail. used bribery. Nothing worked. In the end, she just did it when she was ready.......with a bit of help from scooby doo

rimafacieMon 03-Jun-13 19:45:12 Altinkum "The averae age if a child to be potty trained is 8 years of age, and that's with no SN"Would you care to provide any support for this assertion? Because that may be one of the most unbelievable things I have ever read, and I used to be fascinated by 'aliens'.

Actually when I was potty training DS this was quoted to me several times by the GP, the HV and several other mums, some of them with qualifications in child development. I wasn't told that 8yo is the average age but I was told that in a child with no special needs it is no considered a problem to still be in nappies until the age of 8, ie if your child refuses to potty train they won't class it as an issue or start looking into physical causes until that age.

DS was dry during the day (more or less) by the age of 3 but still wears a pull-up for bed at almost age 4.

OP is probably long gone but - if you have an issue with nappies and poo maybe you're in the wrong line of work?

I was under the impression that Op is a nanny not a childminder.

I've never really understood the argument that having an older child in nappies is because the parents are too lazy.

It's even more strange to find it in a thread where the OP explains in detail about how difficult it was to change the nappy and clean the child up afterwards.

I'd also like to know the source of the statement about 8 being the average age at which a child is toilet trained. Having heard it emerge from the mouth of a medical professional is no guarantee of anything - I've dealt with many who are very cavalier about 'facts' like this. There's a difference between not classing it as a major developmental issue if a child is under 8, and 8 being the average age it happens!

A quick google has suggested (from general/journalistic sources) anything between 2 and 4 as 'average'.

YANBU unless there's special needs. And if there were special needs you should have been told about it.

As amazing and revolutionary as this sounds, it is possible for parents to be a bit, y'know, lazy or misguided about potty training. It's just like some kids can't use a knife and fork by 4 or don't have basic 'please' and 'thank you'. Some parents CBA to teach basic skills. And Pampers and co don't help with their advice to start potty training what I believe is waaaaay too late. There's a whole generation of kids with weird toilet habits due to late training, IMO.

BearFrills, the fact that it is not considered a "problem" until 8, is entirely different from the statement that 8 is the average as stated by Altinkum. Your statement I can fully understand, but if 8 was the average, then surely there would be roughly as many who 'potty trained' between 12 and 14, as there are who potty train between 2 and 4? Does that not strike everyone as highly improbable?

There's a world of difference between CBA to potty train and a child not being ready to potty train. Reading the OP the child in question wasn't speaking up when he needed the toilet, wasn't saying anything when he needed changing and didn't respond to any of her attempts to potty train him - all of which says to me that he just wasn't ready. They're not all merrily pissing on porcelain at 4yo, there is a huge age range that falls within the scope of 'normal'. Current advice is to not even attempt potty training unless the child is showing signs of readiness:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/potty-training-tips.aspx

The OP is BU as there are children aged four who need nappies, individual children physically mature at different rates and a professional childcare provider of all people should be aware of that simple fact.

I thought 3-4yo was the average too but it's not an "issue" until 8yo due to variations in maturation between individual children - maybe that's what Altinkum meant when she said average?

Unless there's a physical reason YANBU. My oldest is 19 - she was dry at 18 months day and night and that was far from uncommon then. Similarly nos 2 and 3. All children were dry (and had to be) to start pre school at 2.5. I refuse to believe that bowel problems have started since the 1990s!

So since when was 3 - 4 the norm?

It's got easier to have a child in nappies at 4, 5 and up. The nappies are better, they don't give a kid an uncomfortable wet feeling, they don't sag around the knees full of poo, they aren't disgusting to wash like cloth nappies so the parents don't have that incentive. It's not surprising it's become more common.

Which leads on to the idea of a child being "ready" to potty train. A child's ready much sooner if there's a big difference between feeling comfy, dry and unrestricted in pants and having a bit of a grim time in a soggy, scratchy, sore, wet and full of poo cloth nappy or even old fashioned disposable. There's hardly any difference now so I suppose it takes a bit of extra effort to make a child see the point.

This is horrible. I looked after a little boy in my teenage years who had toilet training problems. He was still soiling himself in nappies and then.his pants when he was 3-4.

Yes in had to.change his nappy, clean his soiled pants, yes it smelled bad, does.the op's.Shit smell of roses?! He was a very little.boy and it didn't.bother me at all.

The.boy is now 19, and at uni and has no SN and never did. Some.children hit a stumbling block with it.

The op is BVU.

The little.boys older.brother was out of nappies at 2.3 though. Children develop at different rates.

My four children were all fully toilet trained when they reached two. My son was two years and three months, which was was quite late in the eighties. They were all in disposables. You had to have them trained at that age or they weren't accepted into nursery, so you persevered and did it. My grandchildren were all trained between two and two and a half.

I started posting this thinking that I have no idea why this generation are struggling to toilet train. Now I'm wondering if it's actually very uncommon in real life. I certainly have never known or personally heard of any four year olds who aren't trained. I also don't know any teachers of primary age children (mainstream) who change nappies. They don't even wipe bums, never mind change nappies!

I really don't think it's the norm.

Please posters who're having these problems don't feel bad! gawd almighty potty training is tough. I never had any angst about weaning but I dreaded potty training and I've done it four times. Two were dead easy, two were not. Same parents doing the training, kids are individuals who do things at their own pace.

My advice is always give it a go at two and not before, if it's not happening try again in six months, and six months after that.

I know a few kids who've been in them (no SN) until ten, in one it was a physical problem with nerve endings and in another other it's emotional issues. So the assertation it's not a huge concern if a non SN child is in them at eight is probably right tbh.

It's not even particularly unusual.

My niece is seven and wears them constantly because of SN, I changed the little bugger the other day then she lay on the stairs so I lay my head on her back for a snuggle and she filled it just in time for it to reach my nostrils .

Er, OP did say no SN before anymore of you go off on one.