To be shocked and frustrated with the Islamophobia that's bursting out all over Facebook today?

[Seekingsense]

Following the awful tragedy in Woolwich today.

I have seen everything from "We want our England back" to "Kick out all the foreigners" to "Islamic infiltration of the UK" etc. I have paraphrased as some of the stuff is so horrible I do not want to repeat it.

This is from normal everyday people and lots of them. Is this really what people think?

I, like most people am horrified by what has happened to this young soldier in Woolwich, but why is everyone so quick to blame an entire religion for it and to jump on the 'kick out all immigrants' bandwagon.

What can we do about it? Ignore, delete, post, report?

Winenot, I am muslim and I assure you I am not oppressed nor do I feel oppressed. Islam is a way of life for millions of Muslims, it has clear guidelines for everything from eating and drinking to washing oneself. When it comes to dress, there are also guidelines, of which parts of the body a male and female should cover. Many men (and women) worldwide choose the national dress of their country eg in pakistan it is the salwar kameez, in Bangladesh it varies with men in lungees and women in saris. Men and women in ME wear jubbas and abayahs. Etc. Nowadays the western dress code has become popular across the Islamic world and as long as its modest, Islam has no issues with it.

When people talk about muslim women being so oppressed it fucks me right off, as most of these people dont really have a clue about Islamic teachings, they just see a woman covered head to toe, walking timidly behind her 'monster of a husband' with no idea of the dynamics of their relationship or family life. I bet many people look at my poor husband with his beard and think oh the oppressing twat, and if you asked him he would complain he's the oppressed one

Winenot, 'some' Afghanis have a very strange belief system, I live amongst a big mixed community, its not so bad here but 'back home' its a culture where women are considered almost subhuman. Its a fact, I can give many examples. Infact its prevalent in pakistan, Bangladesh, India (a non muslim country may I point out), in other parts of the islamic world. Eg many of the laws in Saudi Arabia - women unable to drive included, are CULTURE based, and uneducated accusations and assumptions are frequently made that its all Islam's fault. The leaders may even try and pass it off as Islamic but its BS. LThere is a variety of scholarly opinions on every topic, from moderate to pretty hardline. But people will nitpick the controversial topics, ignoring the many positive things Islam empowers women with. There's hundreds of female converts, clever, academic types, perhaps ask one if opportunity arises the reasons behind her conversion.

I suggest any islamophobes go do some genuine research, not off some anti islamic website and try and separate religion and culture before you form such strong opinions. Yes there are many informative websites out there if you bother looking.

Chipping, i haven't heard what ajmal masroor had to say on this occasion, (as ive been avoiding the news) but have heard and read articles of various other imams and scholars condemning the murder. You keep saying Muslims need to step up. What do you suggest we do? I havent been out today as I feel scared for my dc after reading the venom from people on fb and other social networks towards muslims. Two mosques were attacked, I dont see you going wild condemning that.

Every single Muslim I know is disgusted by what's happened, we had nothing to do with them men. Why should I apologise for that anymore than any other person?

Of course white murderes are reported! Murders tend to get widely reported if they are extreme or involve children. Look at the case for april jones, white man and very widely reported. I doubt if on a thread about the murder of april jones you would get people posting links of saying "look black people murder too you know!" complete with lists of every black man who ever murdered.

Maybe more Muslims should put their heads above the parapet and become more vocal, why don't more Muslims educate stupid Brits on the real Islam. I remember seeing the photo in the daily mail of the old Muslim couple standing shoulder to shoulder with mourners paying their respects as the coffins passed at Wooten Bassett. The image was very powerful, it was moving and spoke a thousand words. It means a lot.

Yes, but when white people commit murder people do not tend to blame a whole race or religion for it.

HoppinMad, I'm not sure why that post was addressed to me.

My post said 'some Muslim women in Afghanistan are oppressed just like in all religions/countries"

I made no mention of clothing or anything else.

??

Sorry wine, there were afew posters questioning the dresscode for muslim men, i thought you were one. My mistake!

Yes, they are reported, but NOT to the same extent. In the April Jones case, no one posted on facebook that 'all white men are scum' or anything like that.

Yet 2 black Muslims commit a crime, and we have Muslims who are scared to leave their homes for fear of the reprisals, even though they personally are innocent.

Surely that's the difference?

Is it really up to Muslims to educate people or is it up to us all as a society

We have to stop shouting down those who have these beliefs listen and question them as to why they think/feel the way they and educate them

we have a big problem with many people feeling that they are not listened too, feeling they are not part of society sadly on both sides they are targets for extremists. We can not ignore that these men or at least one of them was born here why has he and others become so full of hatred and why so many are turning to far right groups. Calling them crazy, ignorant is not helping it just gives some people a reason to hate even more

Chipstick the internet is a powerful tool, you know, if a person genuinely wants to learn about a particular subject, its quite easy to do so in this day and age. I know of a young white man who converted to moderate Islam (I say moderate as many converts are being accused of following extremist versions of Islam) despite never meeting with or speaking to a single Muslim prior to his conversion. It was an educated decision of his own.
I am not the type to force my religion and my beliefs down anybody's throat. I am happy with my quiet life, live Islamically and Britishly (my made up word) best I can. Oh and the non muslims I know are aware I am a decent person, if they have questions about my faith and my beliefs I have no hesitation in answering them. I would hope anyone reading gets to know decent honest Muslims local to them who can help dispel any misconceptions and fear of Islam that one may harbour. We Muslims are vocal, if you choose to hear.

The media hardly ever prints or airs anything positive about muslims, it got boring to the point I stopped buying newspapers for that very reason. You wont get a glimpse of the real Islam if you are reliant on the news for your views. I suggest some real life Muslim acquaintances if possible.

Yes because in this case it isn't just a simple murder between two people. It is more than that, it is about those involved wanting to punish a wider society through hatred and hearing this morning there are potentially more involved so yes it is very different.

The april jones murder was some nutter and little girl, he wasn't trying to get hate message across or punish the country and there was no one else involved.

It is very different to a straight case murder.

The religion of these men are relevant in this instance as they indicated that it was this that inspired them to do this. The recent child murderers did not say 'I did this for god'. They also haven't, as yet, threatened 'you lot'. That is why people are looking and thinkimg 'muslims? Hmmmm?'.

They are not muslims. Just because they say they are, doesn't make it so. Its not words, its actions that make you who/what you are. They are violent thugs who have more than likely been manipulated by some twat on the internet. I am sure there has been some trigger to them going off to 'find' something meaningful in their lives. Sadly, there is this area of religious/cultural whatever wharpedness in the world (let's face it, they are in it for power, not god) who talk shite and whip up the young and impressionable.

They join because they can scare the beejesus out of people on the street (they can hardly do that as a Hari Krishna). Because they can be aggressive and justify their own thuggish tendancies. A bit like punks or skinheads in the 70s. This isn't religion, its the opposite.

Why do these men on the screen want followers? Power, control, resources... Nothing to do with god. They bang on about the evil west wanting 'their' oil but they are just after the same thing. We need to stop heeding the loud voices and listen to the everyday ones.

hoppin i thought you initial post was really good and i really felt for you. i think it is really bad form that you are made to literally feel scared to go out, i find that upsetting and if i were ever in a situation when someone was being picked on because they were muslim (unless the bullies were scary) i would probably step in and defend that person as i think the whole thing is tragic. one thing i must comment on though, you said in another post about how one should get to know someone muslim if they want to really learn more about it. i live in east london in an area that has more muslim people than non muslims and tbh, i only have muslim friends. the women are pretty traditional pakistan ladies and don't appear to want to mix outside of their own 'community', i have tried, believe me. my friend (who is muslim) is from india and doesn't mix either although she says it is because her husband is christian and they won't talk to her (her words, not mine). sad really, i understand it in part

*I meant to say i only have one muslim friend :)

Maybe the government should start looking at hate preaching clerics.

Wintertime, yes its a shame we have people like that in society who are unwilling to integrate, scared of 'other' influences, dislike of other races and cultures or whatever other reason behind it. We will find them in all ethnicities, Asian/muslim included, but I have come across numerous posts of people on here claiming to have Muslim friends and acquaintances so it isnt impossible wherever you live. I grew up in a pretty racist area so my parents were understandably cautious about which friend I visited etc. But it didnt stop me having friends oll different colours and religions.
Now i live in a very diverse area and all ethnicities happily mix. It doesnt stop me feeling scared though having been involved in a racist attack as a teenager.

Despite what I said yesterday I do think its hard to find the real ideal Muslim whose lifestyle isnt so heavily dominated by some forms of backward cultural beliefs (I dont believe all culture is negative obviously but many parts of many cultures is at odds with the British culture as well as Islam). We have other people too whose actions you cant blame on neither culture nor religion. Theyre just plain shitty people.

They do but because of the laws we have they find it haed to shut them up. We have free speech and that is what people have fought and died for here. Internet is more tricky.

"Maybe the government should start looking at hate preaching clerics."

Is your cave nice at this time of year, chipstick? You've obviously been living there at least a decade.

Hi winter.. Im muslim pakistani and I'll be your mate.

On a serious note, alot of ignorant bastards on FB inciting racial hatred.

If people didn't feel so helpless and persecuted the clerics would have no audience surely?

Today I've told my frail 80 year old hijab wearing mum not to wear her headscarf while out and about. Cos you never know what some twat might do.

Islamophobia is dangerous for us all and makes the world a much scarier place.

'The Muslim community need to step,up to the plate.'

I'm getting sick of seeing rubbish like this. Muslims are in no way responsible for stopping terrorism - it has nothing to do with them any more than it has to do with someone who goes to a C of E church. You need to change your attitude.

Not to mention that the muslim community have felt the need to express that these men have fuck all to do with them and do not represent them in any way.

My niece is a white muslim convert. She is a lecturer and well known in academic circles for teaching about women and religion. She will be able to wander around with her hair covered today, tomorrow whenever she chooses because of the colour of her skin, and Masai's mother has had to be instructed not to cover her hair for her own safety.
We live in a fucking sick society. I'm so sorry Masai.

I can't imagine how Muslims feel going out and about at the moment, in their own country too. I have traditional female Muslim friends. Already know that they often feel nervous going out and about and they have been harassed and one had their hijab pulled off in the street.

What a crock of shite, so the people of this country have to take the blame for this, if people didn't feel so helpless they wouldn't feel persecuted and then go out and commit hate crimes in the name of Islam.
What I meant to say parsing fancy was start deporting them (hate preaching clerics)
Agree as a society we all have a role to play but from where I'm sitting its a one way street on this forum. I will say it again, the Muslim community need to do more. Isn't that what the Muslim council are saying or maybe I'm wrong.

Chipping I think you'll find many Muslim preachers and Imams nationwide have received extensive training about moderation and extremism. Events and courses have been held at my local mosque and others aswell as Islamic centres about extremism, for younger people, basic islam for non muslims (whether these events are attended or not is a different matter) but basically the help is there. Muslims ARE doing things.
Islamic preachers like Abu Hamza have been locked up and/or deported, others like Dr Zakir Naik have been refused entry into this country.
I dont know what would convince some people, perhaps I should run through the streets naked with a placade stating 'not in my name'. Good enough for you?

Begonia - my Muslim friend was assaulted yesterday. Sworn at threatened at spat at. We were due to take our families to the beach tomorrow but she's too scared to go. Not for herself but she does t want her kids to see or hear her being assaulted again. There are many many Muslims is a similar predicament.

For the ignorant people on here saying Muslims need to condemn these actions I can tell you they are doing!! Who the hell do you think faces the backlash of these actions??? Muslims. I'm sickened that this horrible act has made all manner of bigots and racist feel they can unleash their venom on other groups in our society.