to feel very proud of the Scots' reaction to Nigel Farage?

[HeadFairy]

Particularly the man who yelled at him "foreigners are welcome in Scotland, you're not!"

:o

Oh you understand what is meant by quantify now do you?

Fancy doing that to your ludicrous statements back there?

Eh... no it's not, my comment is in response to your claim Scotland lacks political variance.

Paradise Chick do try to include some content in your discussion, and less of the insults.

Be proud of your country for producing world leaders, successful businesspeople, Olympic champions et al - not groups of jeering rioters or stifling political opposition. Win debates by the force of your arguments, not your insults.

Paradise Chick so we are agreed then that Scotland lacks political variance? Do you want to have a think about which other countries in the world lack political variance? And what has happened in the past to countries which did so?

LessMiss, I think that 'Presbyterianism' as a social vision died out in line with the decline of 'Presbyterianism' as a religious outlook, rather than with the rise of the SNP...and..the Labour Party (?)

But to be more serious, alongside the socially conservative aspect of Presbyterianism as a moral philosophy were deeply communitarian values, and many would say that Scotland's socially democratic political outlook is, in fact, deeply linked to the longstanding influence of its religious institutions in its civic life. Many of Scotland's leftist movements were rooted in its churches, and it's crude to try to claim that social reform owes nothing to "hard working diligence". The country never bought Thatcherism, that's for sure, but one of the most interesting (albeit intellectually hollow) aspects of Thatcherism, was the way in which in tried to harness Christian rhetoric in order to promote individualism, and a message that ran entirely counter to centuries of Christian teaching.

Unami another way of looking at it is that traditional Presbyterianism had its heart in a more rural Scotland which now is effectively sidelined from much of the political debate in Scotland.

Communitarianism is thought to be diminished by overly strong socialism - if individuals think the state will look after those in need, they tend to leave it to the state. Have you ever visited China?

Lessmiss you are either not reading my posts, misunderstanding than or being deliberately evasive.

Not being a Tory strong hold does not equal lacking political variances!

A right leaning party does not sit with the value base of the majority - that's q fact represented in voting trend and illustrated by the fact that Scotland is home to more pandas than Tory mp' s.

Even the scottish conservative party shy away from the hard line their Westminster keepers promote.

No, Paradise Chick no need for the high dramatics - its simply someone who doesn't agree with you.

And its the fact that its the attempting to quash political variance, rather than tolerate it, that is the problem.

I thought there was none according to you? So what's to tolerate?

LessMis, it's not really the case that Presbyterianism is, or was, the preserve of rural Scotland. Also, the current politics (and religious history) of rural Scotland are not homogenous - the political outlook and needs of the Western Isles is very different to that of the North East coast, which is different again to Western Ayreshire.

On a similar note, I don't think the Scottish political landscape does lack variance, given the comparative diversity of its political wards. It's only consistent in its rejection of Conservative neo-liberalism. If you don't like that then...I guess that's too bad for you.

I think that Scottish voters are strongly concerned with making sure that those in the greatest need are protected, and they choose to do that as effectively as they can through parliamentary democracy. Which I think is wonderful.

Yes, I have visited China.

LessMissAbs: You are of course aware that elections in this country are held using Proportional Representation. There are 15 Tory MSPs out of 129.

It is also worth noting the Scottish Parliament was set up in such a wa as to make it unlikely that any single party could hold a majority - therefore as the SNP do have a majority they must have had the support of an awful lot of voters.

I wouldn't say Scotland was particularly left-wing, although from my experience of living there, free-market liberalism isn't popular. It is just that the dynamics of party support in Scotland tend to shut out right-wing representation.

The Scottish Unionists were the most powerful political group in Scotland until the 1960s. Then, for reasons best known to themselves, they amalgamated with the Conservative Party and have shed support ever since, being seen as an increasingly thin end of an English wedge.
Had they remained independent, I expect they would not have ended up being so associated with the English nationalism that pervades the Tories today.

The Scottish National Party were also right-wing: in fact they were nicknamed the Tartan Tories. They changed tack, but managed to retain their strong support in rural areas previously held by the Conservatives.

There is a centre-right vote out there in Scotland, but it is (extremely ironically) stitched up by the SNP and what remains of the Conservatives. In the meantime, right-wing Scots who in other circumstances might be political leaders in Scotland simply head south.

The situation is in fact the reverse of the situation south of the border, where the centre-left vote splits between Labour and the Lib Dems leaving the Conservatives a clear run on the right... until now, that is.

My chief memory of living in the place is an overwhelming suspicion of anything from England, similar in fact to the English suspicion of Europe. Euroscepticism is out because it's English. Identification with right-wing politicics is out because it's English. Free market liberalism is right out because Thatcher was English. I wonder how things would have been different had she been Scottish.

I am English but have spent half my life living elsewhere and now live in NZ with my non-English DW. While I did have a some unpleasant experiences, including nearly being beaten up, my chief memory is feeling like I had some kind of birthmark on my face, identifying me as English, and everyone noticing it; never ignoring it, never allowing me to fee like I was being treated as just myself. I have never felt that way in any other place (I've also lived in SA).

I think they were a bunch of idiots.

Interesting poll today, taken over 15/16 May. The incident late afternoon in Edinburgh wouldn't have affected the results.

I think they will probably go even higher now.

Nice to think the Lib Dems will be crapping themselves, but I'm not exactly looking forward to a hung parliament in which Farage holds sway.

I heard it reported on the radio that UKIP/ Tories may be really helping the SNP...

Currently 30something % of Scots are for independence, 40something % against.

But if you add into the question the UK leaving the EU then the results become broadly equal.

They've already done that. Iain Duncan Smith was heckled as well, albeit only by one person I think. Some reference to pandas, I think. I don't understand that anyone north of the border cared that much.

As an English woman who lived her childhood in Glasgow, with my family, who are all still up there (I'm now in S England) I would say that some Scots are most vehemently anti-English.

However, the idiot thugs who attacked Mr Farage did so from ignorance and purely due to Mr Farage being English. It was nothing to do with his representing UKIP. he did nothing to provoke or warrant such disgraceful treatment from those who don't speak for the as usual, silent majority of Scots who may or may not want independence, and certainly don't wish these people to represent their democratic right to express their opinion in a civilised way.

I hope to God that these thugs don't speak for any right minded Scot. What kind of a nation have we become that we think this is acceptable. Some of you on this thread should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. We'd be glad to be rid of you from the UK.

And some of us would be glad to be rid of the ever increasing minority in England who support the BNP or UKIP.

You do know that it was a student group who were protesting and GASP some of them were ENglish?

Toad I'm genuinely sorry that was your experience of living in Scotland...out of interest whereabouts did you live when you were up here ? (I'm in Glasgow).

Ftm42, half the protesters were English you eedjit, some of them also unionist labour supporters.

It was not about him being English, was about him being a racist, misogynist arsehole.

Here's why no none should vote UKIP, they are the BNP with suits & more money.
www.richardcorbett.org.uk/theres-something-about-ukip.pdf