To think, actually, WOH gets harder as they get older.

[Tournament]

I've worked (at least p-t) all my life. It was a choice for me, I wanted to get out to work, keep my career etc, although I did very much step back for a while, I always kept my hand in IYSWIM.

When DC were tiny, there was always some feeling of guilt at not always being there, but the day to day practicalities were easy. You got them up and dressed, bundled them in the car, handed them over to GP, childminder or nursery and then it was someone else's job to do everything for them until it was practically bedtime. They were cared for, fed and entertained without me ever really having to do anything. (When I was at work). I'd collect on my way home, take them home and put them to bed.

Now they're 9 & 11, there's homework to supervise, clubs to organise, taxi services to provide, sports and school events to watch (or to have to explain you can't) friendship issues or other worries to listen to and if I'm not around after school, they can't have friends back and they can't go to other's houses.

Why do teenagers need chauffering 24/7?
(genuine question)
I don't recall ever getting driven around by my parents. In fact, a lot of the time, we had no car, so not an issue!
I had a bike, I walked, I had a bus pass. If I went out late,I took a cab.
Not sure I would want a 16 yr old daughter taking a cab on her own, but with friends I would be fine with it.
I grew up in a town though, so I suppose if you live rural it's different.

Single mom here too and my 12 year old is really easy. He does all his homework, is now old enough to come home on his own and at secondary no real parent in put. My dd (8) though. Probably the hardest as she is always planning things with friends, wanting me to go to school events, very attention seeking and quite hard work but I keep thinking only a few more years and she won't want to see me as much so try and go to as many things as possible. Only do 4 days a week as lucky enough that this is enough for mortgage and bills. Whilst full time would be good financially I think the dcs would miss out more. A friend who worked full time has a dd (19) who accuses her of always putting work first which I know she doesn't. It is very hard to balance the money and the dcs but a lot does depend on your dcs. My ds is generally happier to be left but dd never has been. Anyway we all do what we think is best and there are so many people that moan about single mothers living off benefits but I completely understand sometimes.

IfNot

I think there are several reasons for chauffering teenagers, but perhaps not 24 hours. grin]

A woman I know drops her dd in town and picks her up when the dd wants to come home she is 14, wanders the streets, hangs out in park. My friend has 3 dc and is always taking one or more of them somewhere.

Social life, hobbies and interests, town, clubs pubs etc. School, if no alternatives.

They do it for safety, control, peace of mind, to feel needed, probably lots more too.
I didn't do it as I didn't think it was helping them, they asked if it were something they couldn't get to on their own.

My children are almost 13 and 14, and at the moment I'd say we have the easiest time that we've ever had with both of us working full time. We all get up, the kids help with dog walking/lunch making, we all scramble for breakfast/showering and then we all get the bus together as it goes past both kids schools. They have a couple of hours at home before we get back from work, when they do a few chores and generally relax. It took them a little while to adjust after dh went back to work again (he was a SAHD for a few years, which was a great luxury for all of us) but I don't think that they are unduly suffering.

Th summer holidays are going to be interesting though!

Where I live pretty much everyone has two working parents and the schools/clubs know this.

So meetings that parents need to be at are arranged for evenings, we are given loads of time to know about stuff in the school day, many of the extra curricular things actually use the school premises and the afterschool club will take them.

DS1 does chess club, soccer, band, swimming and maths club this is all possible even though DH and I work long days because the clubs around here know that if it is going to happen then they are going to need to happen around parental working hours. The things that are run by volunteers are run by working parents as well so they need to happen in the evenings.

The infrastructure here is pretty amazing TBH it was one of the reasons we chose this area. The high school while not technically having 'care' available in the afternoons does have many clubs that run on school premises which the kids can go to so they are not home alone for hours until a parent gets in.

So no, in my case I don't think it will get harder (if DS1 is anything to go by) but it will certainly get cheaper as far as childcare goes.

It was so much easier when dd was in nursery not school! Now the emotional demands from her are a lot higher not to mention practical school stuff (fish costume with 1 wk notice anyone?)

I think it does get harder. I'm a primary school teacher so I see what it takes to facilitate the social lives and hobbies if ten year olds, and their emotional dramas, and the academic support, etc.

DH remains convinced it will only get easier as they get older and then I'll be able to work full time! Don't think so mate.

I don't agree with stopmoving or ssd- I think the poster is saying she didn't need to do the same level of activity when picking the kids up - they were cared for all day. Older children, as everyone says, have different emotional and practical needs than a small baby. There's no need to make this woman feel guilty for even more -I'm sure she did a lot for her baby! I'm really conscious it's only going to get harder and from what I've seen with friends, that's when they draw on family support or carefully selected childminders - I don't even know where to start with care for a 15 year old so lots of learning to do between now and then...!

Much easier than with babies waking you at night whilst you work full time etc.

We had a nanny who looked after the younger ones in the day and then did school collection and cooked their dinner.
Another option at one stage we had someone who did the housework in the morning and then school collection etc and she was specificalyl paid to drive the children around to very distance parties weekend after weekend for a period when the girls were 7 - 10 and friends' parties could be 30 - 45 min drive away.

Another option was someone hired just to collect children from school and look after them here until 6.
When women make wise career choices it means they can afford care for their children which results in the child not having to miss having friends round etc. It all comes back to feminism and the need to ensure girls are directed to high paid interesting work rather than call centre and care jobs with minimal GCSEs.

Also of course fathers do everything 50/50 in normal non sexist homes Women silly enough to marry or endure sexist men of course have a harder time.

I don't have the experience of older children as eldest is only 3.5yo but my thoughts are that regardless of whether it gets easier or harder you have to live in the moment.

The big problems don't have to be dealt with all at once and it can look scary when you start considering all the difficulties of all the various ages at once.

Being a parent is hard regardless of whether your sah or working but we all do it because we love them and their worth all those amazing moments!

(Having said that I look forward to maybe getting a little more sleep when their older!)

Babies waking up at night - kind of depends when you go back to work. I chose to take 11 months off, by the time I went back to work he was a good sleeper. He used to sleep into 8.30 am at weekends, wish he would do that now

I believe the point that is being made on this thread is that working through early childhood can be easier by the availability of round the year care for long hours. Once they start school then there are assemblies, sports days, and school holidays to contend with.

You can outsource a lot I agree, and if you are lucky enough to be well paid - because luck is certainly part of it, then you can afford great wrap around care.

Bizarrely though I, and DH for that matter, don't wish to outsource certain moments. Last year I was unable to attend DS's sports day because I had an "important" teleconference. All good, DH went instead, turns out that DS won every race he was in. I was gutted as I got the texts through. Yes DH was there so that was great, but this is our DS and his special moment and I missed it. This year both DH and I are making plans to be there.

I agree that women should have equal opportunity to highly paid jobs and men should do 50/50. However I'm very happy that I have structured my job so DS can have friends over ,we have some relaxed time together and I can generally attend the important events. DH works longer hours so it would seem strange to insist on 50/50 but for the important things for DS like parents evening, making sure he does his homework and being involved in his development DH certainly plays his fair share.

SSSh! I tell my daughter (mother of 2 under 3) every day that it will get easier. Imo it does, it really does. It also gets more difficult in other ways, of course, but then you as a parent are better equipped to deal with it, ime.

I've tried everything in my 35 years of uninterrupted full-on parenting. P/T and F/T work, childminders, mother's helps (I know - that's what they were called), having someone to collect them from school and stay until I got home, afterschool clubs, family, friends, holiday clubs, and as a last resort leaving the youngest unsupervised for an hour or two after school from the age of 13 (which was horrible for both of us, and I would not recommend it).

Early teens was a difficult time for me with my youngest and I would have loved somewhere like one of the posters above provided for younger teenagers.

It is worth it in the end, and it doesn't last for long. Each stage is over almost before it begins, ime. You will look back and think 'I did something that was really important, not just for me but for everyone around me. I managed it. I got through.'

Also, things have got better and there are more after-school clubs, which was what really changed our lives for the better.

Obviously more affordable and better quality childcare is needed, but isn't the key to this flexible working hours as well ? I really can't see why that seems so difficult for some employers to set up. I would have thought that it would be to everyone's advantage, including the employers' - who often have children too.

The concept of the 'womanly' caring role is an important one: it isn't just about the practicalities of cooking, feeding, washing, chaufferring, which can be shared or delegated or paid for, it is about the emotional support and guidance and sharing life's experiences, successes and failures, making choices and passing on the benefit of one's own experience and coping strategies and protection. These things become crucial from about 5 onwards, especially 11 onwards, though it doesn't matter whether it is mum or dad, but preferably it is both, and a whole lot of other relatives and friends besides, who need to be available for the children as they grow up. Not all the time. But enough time from mum for mum to be a useful grown up rock in their emotional lives.

Mine always got worried if I didn't work. They needed to be sure the bills were going to get paid and they needed to be proud of me.

Actually, I think you would have to be pretty silly to endure a sexist husband, so I would have to agree with that.
Also, what solopower says about , well a lot, is true! There is better wrap around care now. But also, there is more parental guilt. When I was a child and both parents worked we had a string of home helps who would do school pick up and get us tea. That was until I was around 12 and then we were on our own, with neighbours we could call on in emergencies. I do remember getting a bit bored and lonely in the holidays, but it was ok.the trouble is, I think, parents kill themselves scheduling endless activities from age 4 onwards, schools have way more assemblies and days that parents are expected to attend, and we all agonise over whether we are doing the right thing for our children.
Its too much. I also agree R.e flexible working and employers. The only way I can manage to work ft is that I can do 2 days from home. It has changed my life! The trouble is, that most employers won't let employees do this, because, yes, they have children, but the top bosses making decisions are usually men. Childcare is still very much seen as a womans problem.

I hear this a lot but my experience is that life is much easier now both are at primary school. I love after school, picking them up and hearing about their days, the homework is no big deal and they are still little enough to be content with going to the park/library/being home. We only do 2 extra-curricular activities, used to do more but it was a bit too busy. Life is calm and the kids seem happy with the simple routine. And I find it a lot easier than baby and toddler days although they were lovely too.

IfNotNow, the guilt, the guilt! Imo the only thing that helps is if, when you look back, you can honestly say you thought really carefully about each and every decision and did the best you could in the circumstances. That helps a lot, because how can you be blamed for doing something that you truly thought was best for everyone - even if it turns out to be a mistake? And you have to be vigilant, so that when something starts going wrong you can change it asap.

Being vigilant involves, in my case, not overworking and getting enough sleep! Because when I am continually mulling stuff from work over in my mind, I am not aware of what's going on with the rest of the family.

What also helped me was when someone said it was OK to be a 'good enough' parent.

I'm not sure there is more guilt now. There does seem to be more of an actual expectation that women should work outside the home. But this expectation could make people feel less, rather than more, guilty. If society expects you to go out to work, but doesn't then provide the childcare and flexible working arrangements, how can it be your fault if your children grow up unhappy?? Not very helpful to think like this of course, but still ...

In some cases, I feel we bully each other into making choices that are not right for us or our kids, which is sad.

And the reason we often feel we are failing is because we are trying to do something that is really difficult, so we make mistakes.

ensure girls are directed to high paid interesting work

The problem is if every woman did this (I'm assuming the men are already doing this) then there would be no one to care for the kids!

Seriously for a society to work we need proper affordable childcare for all so we all then have choices, real choices.

I have 3 kids 17, 12, 11 and I have found they need me more then when they were babies. Yes they can cook, do chores etc but emotionally they do need a parent just that little bit more. However there can be balance once our needs as parents aren't totally subsumed and ignored.

Women silly enough to marry or endure sexist men of course have a harder time.

Well of course that's just common sense, the relationships board is full of women putting up with a man-child. These men do exist and generally just further burden the woman.

In the 1980s, if I had decided, as a single parent, to stay at home to look after my kids and to go on benefits, no-one would have criticised me for it. People would have thought, right, someone has to look after the children, so why not their mother? People would have understood that it is extremely difficult to do two full-time jobs (three, if you count the housework) and would never have presumed to tell others that they had to work themselves so hard.

(On the other hand, there were fewer job opportunities for women and even less childcare, so I am not harping back to better times. Just kinder ones, maybe).

The problem with not marrying a sexist man is that it is very easy for men to appear feminist in outlook when living the life of a single, childfree man. Living together or, in particular, having children often seems to force the unlikeliest of couples into very traditional gender roles. That first maternity leave usually alters everything.

Amen to that iggi

My DP found it hard to adjust to living together (I already had dd) and he is in no way sexist. But always contributed 50% plus to housework and dc responsibilities and still does although happier now he grew up a bit! I think it's hard for both men and women to go from the "single life" & by that I mean no dc - to running around like a headless chicken with no time for yourself

I find with ds , 11, I have a lady who picks him up from school, takes him home, does tea and tidies a bit in the kitchen and sorts out the washing . She cleans on other days too.
When he goes to secondary she will be at the house when he gets off the bus and continue same for a while.
This ensures I can work full time, someone sensible is keeping on top of the house and an eye on ds while he is at the imbetweenie stage. Tbh I will probably keep her with me even as he grows over the next few years... It's nicer for him and overall costs are not too bad, about £. 150 to £200 per month max and saves me cleaning all day Saturday.
Childminding when he was younger meant he had a bit of company but wasn't home or fed till late and that's why we changed.