To think, actually, WOH gets harder as they get older.

[Tournament]

I've worked (at least p-t) all my life. It was a choice for me, I wanted to get out to work, keep my career etc, although I did very much step back for a while, I always kept my hand in IYSWIM.

When DC were tiny, there was always some feeling of guilt at not always being there, but the day to day practicalities were easy. You got them up and dressed, bundled them in the car, handed them over to GP, childminder or nursery and then it was someone else's job to do everything for them until it was practically bedtime. They were cared for, fed and entertained without me ever really having to do anything. (When I was at work). I'd collect on my way home, take them home and put them to bed.

Now they're 9 & 11, there's homework to supervise, clubs to organise, taxi services to provide, sports and school events to watch (or to have to explain you can't) friendship issues or other worries to listen to and if I'm not around after school, they can't have friends back and they can't go to other's houses.

Chocolatecqke, UK childcare costs, relative to wages, are amongst the highest in the world.

Dozer what is it you would like to see done? Have them lowered?

We could have more state-subsidised childcare for a start.

you want the state to subsidise childcare? Where would this funding come from?

Choc from the money spent on spectacular fireworks on New Year's eve?

as a start

amazing

I'd rather have the fireworks thanks. It would be a bit boring for all those people in London, without their fireworks

Captainsweatpants the only guided tours she had were when she went back for interviews during the actual application process so these were much later. Those she attended alone I was normally shopping in the city centre. Still had public transport issues.

Surely though most people would see that having children is a choice, not a disability, so if you choose to have children you choose to both work or work as a single mum you should pay for your own childcare. Why should taxes pay for it? I would much rather see money saved from fireworks spent on enhancing the life and helping people with disabilties - those who don't choose their situation.

Hi OP,

I have 3 dcs, one in primary school and 2 who are not yet school age. Both myself and h work full time.

Agree with you that school definitely complicates the logistics. Mine are not as old as yours yet, but my eldest is starting to engage with me on a more mature level now, so we are beginning to sit and have the meaningful conversations.

I must admit, we have to run a pretty tight ship. We manage using a combination of a nanny, nursery and we relocated with my work closer to my parents, who are happy to help if necessary (if they are around!).

So... homework and some extra curricular activities on weekends with us. Nanny ensures that the children are brought home, complete any remaining homework or do any after school activities during the week. Friends can come round. I print off a weekly plan every Sunday and put it on the fridge, detailing who is where everyday, and what's for dinner . Schoolbags, packed lunches, swimming gear etc. all needs to be prepared the night before.

H and I are usually out of the house around 8am, and generally both back before 6.30pm. If one needs to be in early, return late, or travel, we tend to support each other. I also have flexibility to work from home, and rearrange my hours if necessary. I am lucky to have worked in good teams and had good bosses. But some of that was negotiated as a result of my performance and reputation at work.

We also share money-earning, household tasks and parenting fairly equally, although I do more cooking and planning. I think we lost our equilibrium a bit after the children were born, so it took some re-adjusting, but it's fine now.

I don't know what will happen as the children get older. I like to think we have a set-up that works - neither of us working those crazy hours we hear mentioned, or travelling a lot. I would like to keep our nanny for after school and holidays when the children are in school, but we shall have to see whether she would agree to the change in hours.

I didn't want to go back to work but DH said I needed to work part-time to balance the books. I resented this at first but on the other hand I don't like relying on anyone else for money so it would have been very difficult for me to have to ask him for money.

Working part-time actually helped me get over the guilt that DP was paying the mortgage as I pay some bills and pay DH a proportion of my salary plus child benefit/tax credits every month. I also pay for childcare and anything I or the children need and presents etc.

I don't earn a lot but to be honest I don't want a high flying career. Even if I'd never had children, I'd still be working in an office somewhere. I've got two degrees, I'm very academic but I'm very highly strung and get stressed easily so don't want to work in a high pressured environment. My interests and ambitions lie elsewhere (Everest, South Pole, Marathons- maybe someday)

Working part-time has been a good option for me. I worked part-time pre children whilst studying and enjoy the variety it gives to my week.

I wouldn't have wanted DH to be a SAHD because DH and I have different views on parenting and I don't think I would have found it easy to relinquish control. I do use childcare but I like the fact that I'm the dominant parent (that feels just as powerful and feminist to me as earning loads of cash).

As an aside, I think some WOHM parent quite intensively which helps to make up for the hours spent apart when other people are supposedly "bringing up their children"

For instance by co-sleeping and breastfeeding for a long time, I felt I was able to reconnect with my DC at night (many times- mine weren't good sleepers!) even on the days I hadn't seen so much of them. The hours I spent with them(particularly when I had one child) were all about playing, doing fun things together. I didn't feel I had to do housework when I was with them. I didn't watch my programmes or go on mumsnet while they were awake. I got up with them every weekend. You can't be cabaret mum 24/7 but you can do it a couple of days a week.

Just caught up from last night.

I am amazed that so many parents go to uni open days with their kids. No wonder the little darlings arrive and can't fend for themselves properly. Cut the apron strings for heaven's sake, people!

It is interesting watching the next generation of thirty something female doctors. They have had the benefit of a flexible training system and the availability of part time posts. But are they as committed to their jobs as men? Are they hec. Modern women think the work world owes it to them to bring up their children. I'm not sure what I think about tis. On the one hand I'm really pleased that it is easier for intelligent women to contribute to medicine while at the same time bringing up a family. On the other hand medicine will suffer because in fact they dont contribute enough

Funny person
With the EWTD now I don't think men have the same continuity of are either.
SHOs ATM finish the working day at 4.30 pm.. Because the Trust won't up their pay for the next pay tier banding.the would rather the Dr finish they
Ir day at 4.30 than pay them until 5 as thus would mean extra 400 per month.

Continuity of care

FWIW I know plenty of consultants who knock off for the day at 430-445pm.

funny, yes - it is just a more "entitled" generation borne of a period of economic boom. The boom is over. The money has run out and only those men and women who "lean in" will do well.

I think it is important people tell younger people, male and female, that if you aren't very good, often off sick, leave on time, mess around, take long periods away amazingly yes it might affect your change to run the company in due course or even hold down a job when thousands would kill to be in your post. I would have hoped that would be common sense but perhaps it has not permeated where it needs to permeate.

Khx and her husband manage children and full time work like most parents do and as indeed we did 20 years ago when the youngest three were young. It's common sense. You get home as early as you can leaving more on time than if you didn't have children. You both want to be there to help with getting them through baths, stories, rest of homework bed although you do sometimes enjoy the odd evening being out or working late as that very busy period with tired children can be quite hard work even when mostly two of you do it together as we did and indeed as both my parents did in the 1960s. Men and women sharing the load at home is not a 2013 thing. It has always been the case in fair marriages.

Xenia i admire your outlook - it's people like you who help make the women more accepted in the workplace with your can do attitude. It's amazing how many women moan about men having it all careerwise and don't do enough at home or with the kids yet mostly it's because they let them.

It is perfectly reasonable to say to a man when dating and discussing children that you expect him to do his share with the home and the kids yet so many don't and they just plod along then moan about it. People have all the resorces they need nowadays to forge a career and get a man to step up to his share but many don't use it.

Permanently exhausted its not about cosseting them but about helping them decide the right choice for them. Taking an interest and helping and supporting them is not the same as infantiling them.

With one exception all my daughters friends are doing well the one who isn't quit part way through year one. His parents oddly enough took no interest.

soverlylucky - I think I posted on the wrong thread by accident [idiot emoticon]

but I stand by my last post that was addressing another poster's situation.

apologies to everyone if anything I've said on this thread irked you, sorry!

I meant I stand by the one addressed to petey.

not the silly one about the fireworks.

Funding childcare could be seen by the government as a way of boosting economic growth. Think how many people (aka women) say they can't work as they won't make any money after childcare. I believe capitalism quite likes people earning money, spending money etc.
Or we could go for a socialist state, adequately tax corporations and pay for it out of that.
What do the scandinavian countries do, they are usually ahead of the game re children/maternity.

Iggi that is exactly why the Govt are starting to look more at funded childcare. The baby boomers are all retiring and we have less people in work to support those not in work. It is an economic reality in most of Europe and getting worse. It is silly that this thread became a battle over SAHM vs WOHM. We have completely missed out all those people who manage to combine a career working at least part from home as all our directors do on a Friday. The reality of work is changing. The new generation is not prepared to put up with inflexible working hours although sadly this is not possible for everyone. Comments like 'why have children if you are not looking after them' and I think of my children bit ££££ are really not helpful. Yes choice is the product of women's lib in the 60s but women whose husbands earn sufficient to cover all the bills are late. Probably about 2% at my dc's school so we need to move on from this debate. Many women and men are balancing rewarding careers with childcare and really in history it is only from the 50s onwards that housewives appeared. Previously women helped their husbands in the family business or in the fields. The term housewife or SAHM is a relatively new concept and many women really enjoy the role - some can take it a bit too far by becoming glorified taxi drivers as they feel kids need to do lots of extracurricular when in reality children also need downtime. Given the opportunity I would have done it for more than a year but I know my weakness is competitiveness and feel I would have ended being a competitive mom and my dcs would have suffered as a result and that was one of my reasonings for getting my competitiveness out in the work environment. We are all different and let's welcome that not criticise others decisions.

Btw going to uni days with your adult children. Really! I went to all of mine on my own and would not have dreamed of taking parents.