"F is not a fail"

[MrsBombastic]

This is what my DD's maths teacher told her class yesterday.

DD is 15, she is not gifted in the maths department but even she (and I) was shocked and frankly devastated that she got an F in her mock GCSE.

She was not the only one, apparently the entire class failed this mock and when my daughter became distressed along with another pupil her teacher told them all to stop complaining that;

"This is not America, F does not mean fail and you should be satisfied with what you've got"

Needless to say I have contacted the school to make an appointment to discuss this poor attitude and to find out why my DD got this mark, why she has actually dropped a set since she has been in this school and why, despite repeated requests for more support she is not getting it.

AIBU? x

Why is she in bottom set if she gets b's usually? I didn't think bottom sets sat papers allowing those grades. (forgive me if I've mixed up two different posters, I think I'm actually asleep)

polka - because sets are dependent on grading for the individual subject. Hence top set English - bottom set maths.

Realistically, you may be looking at a retake next year. And you're right, to be a teacher she needs a C or above. Or anything with a reasonable level of responsibility - you'd expect more than half - maybe two thirds of the year to achieve that, and, tbh, no one would actually want someone with out that level of attainment teaching their children?

So, to be positive, try the best for this year and look to retakes next year to plug the gap.

Of course it is a fail. It's the equivalent of getting a prize for showing up. You can get an F in GCSE maths pretty much by spelling your own name correctly at the top of the page.

Whilst it isn't technically a fail it might as well be for all it's good for.

Holly - I don't think that anyone is saying that if you don't get at least a C then you aren't going to get a job. But the reality is that for jobs that require a certain amount of numeracy skills a grade C is usually the minimum requirement.

I am sure someone has already said this, but your DD can retake when she is in the 6th Form. When she has better teachers and more support. If possible, it is better to get C's in maths and English GCSEs (obviously )

Am I correct in thinking that your DD is in Y10? If so, please remember that her mock will not necessarily be representative of the grade she is actually on target to reach because she won't be as well prepared now as she will be when it's time for the final exam.

I'm surprised you haven't been given access to her target grade and predicted grade. We send data information home three times per year with an indication of target grades, predicted grades and effort rankings. I would be very concerned if this information isn't being regularly provided as it's a vital aspect of monitoring achievement. You would also have a much better picture of your DD's overall progress.

Since you don't seem to like/trust the classroom teacher, I think it would be more effective for you to contact the head of department. Ask for details on revision sessions being offered, extra lessons and other measures taken to help pupils achieve their Cs. It's in the school's best interest to have as high a percentage of pupils achieving A*-C in English and Maths as possible, so I would be surprised if there aren't a range of intervention strategies in place.

I got an F- in my English language gcse mock, and an a* in the actual exam.

Mainly because I took the piss, but still, mocks are not necessarily accurate.

She does need a C, but I would take a second opinion on her tbh.

For anybody wanting a graduate job an F grade is not worth the paper it's written on.

I would definitely get a tutor if you can afford it. The teacher may be fine but one on one work will help your daughter hugely.

I don't know if a C is possible from an F but I have a colleague who does private tutoring too and he claims to get failing students up to C grades and beyond (though he does think he's the best teacher ever to grace the earth so maybe he's exaggerating)

PatPig - I think that the OP said that her DD was in the bottom set so (sorry OP) I don't think that the 'F' was a freak result.

My ds got an E in GCSE Maths. His teacher was very negative and took the attitude that ds just wasn't trying when in fact he found Maths incredibly hard. He kept being switched between the 4th and 5th groups of 6, 6 being the lowest.

He then went to college to do A levels and had to retake GCSE Maths too as anyone with less than a C in English or Maths was expected to do. It added a few hours a week to a fairly easy timetable for 2 years. The teacher was much more positive and always thought he'd eventually get a C grade, which was the aim, and ds was much more positive about it. He retook the Foundation paper and got a C.

I'd advise you to push for her to be entered for the higher paper and get her a tutor. I know 'not everyone can get a C' is commonly rolled out, but it's piss easy simple math.

6 years ago (so pretty recent) I was in bottom set maths, all of us projected for a D at best. Got a brilliant teacher in year 11 who against all judgeypants from the other teachers withdrew us from foundation and submitted us for the higher paper.

We all got Cs or above. I really pushed myself and got a B which I am still proud about to this day.

If you're willing to put the work in and learn the harder formulae without the wails of 'I can't do ittttt' it is so much easier to get a C on the higher paper than it is on Foundation- as on foundation a C is the top, highest obtainable grade.

Good luck to DD

Hell I must have been cheap! 17 quid! Not a teacher tho.

If its not affordable, there are lots of other things you can try. Can you help her too? Get a list of the topics she's struggling with and a list of more confident ones, past paper questions and lots of practice questions with the confident topics. Is there a brother/sister who had a good teacher with a good set of notes, that could help? A family member or friend who could explain things with her?

I have to say that I don't advise pushing for being entered for the higher paper, if she is an F grade student then that will just mean that she will fail, and have her confidence dented to boot.

Having taught bottom set, one where I was genuinely delighted and relieved that one student got a G instead of failing, who had a statement of SEN and had to add up using his fingers, I am a bit skeptical that bottom sets can all get Cs really.

YADNBU disgraceful attitude from the teacher, for all intents and purposes a F is a fail and to get it in GCSE Maths will bring all future hopes and aspiration to a very sudden halt. I am almost speechless that such poor standard would be accepted in the way the teacher has. I think you need to look at getting a tutor if you can afford it.

OP - the good news is if your DD is getting Bs and Cs in all her other subjects, then she is clearly not academically struggling - she must be a bright girl to manage that in other subjects, so she is perfectly capable of getting better than a F grade at maths, with extra help (from tutor or from you, or from extra lessons from the school). You've got a year to turn this around. Good luck!

I had to take GCSE Maths a couple of years ago (long story) and I ended up ditching the textbook in favour of BBC Bitesize. It's really good, easy to follow and you can do stuff at your own pace. I passed and yet I'm really thick at Maths.

It will be really hard for your DD to achieve a C in a class full of F students. Maybe, instead of hiring a tutor, you could both settle down in front of the PC with tea, biscuits and a new Maths exercise book and spend an hour working your way through the programme on there? If you did that every other night the sky would be the limit after a year. And you would be learning too

If the whole class gets an F or below, then there is something clearly wrong with the teaching.

And yes, to all intents and purposes, an F is a fail.

Has she had problems before with maths?

How many times does it need to be said that F is not a fail? It isn't. Whether it's much use in the outside world is another matter.
The grades go from A+ to UG.
UG is fail. The rest reflect attainment. It's worth remembering what GCSE was for, to remove the stigma attached to different exams for different abilities the GCE/CSE. The aim was laudable, and still is.

Having taught lowest sets it boils my piss to hear posters saying an F-achieving student has failed. For many of them it will be the very best they can do, and a real solid achievement. I wonder how many of those posters would say to such children, some of whom will have statements: Oh, you've failed.

The OP's daughter is in the bottom set so the staff who set the group, who won't be the teacher, did so on the basis of performance, probably SATs.

To criticise the teacher for low expectations is to (F)ail to understand the nature of setting. The teacher will be working within a set of reasonable expectations of the group she has been assigned, and dangling the prospect of a C grade before them is not reasonable.

Doing well in other subjects does not mean she will do well in maths; she might, she might not.

A tutor may help, might not, but worth a try.

One of the things a school is judged on for league tables and by ofsted is the percentage of pupils achieving C or above in both English and Maths. As such, I'm surprised that the school has not already been putting extra help in place for your daughter as in my school she would be seen as someone we would have to "convert" as she will get above a C in English, therefore our Curriculum Deputy would be asking Maths teacher regularly if she was now on target for a C, and if not why not.

Achieving high grades in other subjects is a good indication that your daughter could get a C in Maths, but not a guarantee. As a teacher it makes me very sad that below a C is commonly considered a failure. For some students an F really represents every ounce of effort and is something to be proud of. Not every student is capable of a C grade, however those that could possibly achieve it, even if it is a slim chance, should be given every help and opportunity to try to achieve that C.