"F is not a fail"

[MrsBombastic]

This is what my DD's maths teacher told her class yesterday.

DD is 15, she is not gifted in the maths department but even she (and I) was shocked and frankly devastated that she got an F in her mock GCSE.

She was not the only one, apparently the entire class failed this mock and when my daughter became distressed along with another pupil her teacher told them all to stop complaining that;

"This is not America, F does not mean fail and you should be satisfied with what you've got"

Needless to say I have contacted the school to make an appointment to discuss this poor attitude and to find out why my DD got this mark, why she has actually dropped a set since she has been in this school and why, despite repeated requests for more support she is not getting it.

AIBU? x

[MrsBombastic]

Thanks Holly, Noble and Abs your info has been useful, I will make a note of this. x

[FreyaSnow]

It isn't an irrelevant discussion because some employers will consider a GCSE pass that isn't a C as being worth something. An F at GCSE is better than no GCSE at all.

[DontmindifIdo]

Anything below a C is not worth having, you can't use the qualification practically as every colleage, university and employer who cares if you have the qualification or not want above a C - that is an important lesson to learn.

Get a tutor. You've got a year, you can really focus on this, you can probably get that up to a C if she's prepared to work and you are prepared to pay for a tutor and put in time with her on top of that.

[MrsBombastic]

I think part of the problem special is that she spends most of her time trying to be friends with her pupils, maybe she feels intimidated by them and thinks this is the only way to control/relate to them?

I know that this class is the bottom set, my DD is frustrated as according to her the other kids shouted her down and told her to stop moaning to as she was "making them all feel bad" about their grade but then these are the same kids who have openly admitted they have no intention of going on to further education and can't understand what all the fuss is about.

[Remotecontrolduck]

Well, technically it is a pass but it might as well not be tbh, you need a C or above for many, many things these days, especially maths.

Speak to the teacher, find out what needs to happen to get that C and hire a tutor. Instil some confindence in her, she can do this.

[HollyBerryBush]

Warming to see, that the 42% who don't attain a C grade are written off by MN-ers, clearly never going to get jobs etc.

Op - you say your daughter wants to be a teacher is she mad?? there is an equivalency for numeracy and literacy (ESL) that some universities use. I know our HoDrama has one. One of our 6th formers cannot pass GCSE maths, he will get at least 3 A's in his A2s this year and he's accepted at a good uni, reading European history. There are always ways and means to achieve your goal.

[MrsBombastic]

Thanks don'tmind... that's what I will do. I have found someone, it's £25 an hour

[cardibach]

Maths would typically be set by Y10. This means that the entire class getting a similar grade would not suggest incompetence from the teacher - more that your DD is in a set where F is a realistic grade. These sets do exist, and one of the best teacher s I know teaches them at GCSE. Often none of her class get above an F, but without her they would truly fail.
what set is it? What are your DDs target grades in other subjects? What hs she achieved in other exams?

[MrsBombastic]

Holly, that's exactly what I was thinking!

Is it possible for you to PM me to explain that to me? I'm slightly boggled, I get the jist just not sure how that works? x

[HollyBerryBush]

£25 - that's very cheap, it £40 round this way.

Although, you've said she is bottom set, I think an F is amazing for that ability group (I'm wildly assuming it's like our lowest set).

[Remotecontrolduck]

It's expensive isn't it, but ultimately there will be SO many more doors open to her with a C in maths. It's a worthwhile investment.

Make sure she uses tutoring effectively, don't waste money if she's not listening and ensure she's working on any weaknesses

[Nehru]

of course F is a fail
I agree with you OP

Ask to speak to the Head of department

[cardibach]

Ah, cross post. I see it is bottom set. I'm sorry, but bottom set pupils in a comprehensive school are very, very unlikely to get a C. There are grades A*-G because that is the spread of ability. Bottom set will realistically get G, F or E.

[HollyBerryBush]

I'd have to find out what it's called first - let me ask tomorrow. I'm just toddling off to bed I'm afraid, light weight that I am!

[MrsBombastic]

Cardibach, one of the reasons we were so shocked by her maths is because she is getting mainly B's and the odd A and C grade.

To be fair, maybe she won't be able to get a C? But the attitude of her teacher is appalling TBH and considering we've been asking for help since she started year 9 I'm just frustrated and so is she, she really cried today

[cardibach]

also, those suggesting you spend £s to 'get a C' are talking nonsense. It would take a miracle to get an F grade candidate up to C. As has been pointed out, 42% of pupils don't get it. Those who can be moved by more tutoring are those on a D, or possibly an E if they are lazy.

[MrsBombastic]

I'm off to bed too. I've got to get up at 5.30 for work but I will be back tommorrow eveing, thanks for the input peeps. x

[FreyaSnow]

Is it snobbery that has people calling that grade a fail? There will no doubt be pupils in that class who are wanting to go on to apprenticeship courses where they will need passes (not grade C) at GCSE to get on, and who will have worked hard to get that F, which is a pass and will let then on to a course that they wouldn't have been allowed on if they actually failed maths.

[FreyaSnow]

OP. if she doesn't get a C, could she not do GCSE maths alongside her A levels later?

[DontmindifIdo]

If she wants to be a teacher, she's going to need a C. Even if she can get on the course without it, she'll struggle to get an actual job without it, and there's little point putting yourself through what is a stressful and hard vocational course for no job at the end of it.

The grade needs to raise or the career path plans need to change. £25 an hour is very reasonable for round here.

[notsoyoniface]

An F is a fail, it may be a grade but it is a fail. I got an F in my GCSE maths but was able to take a re-sit along with my A-levels, is that an option?

[FirstVix]

Whilst there may well be a problem with the teacher, the fact that the whole class is getting the same grades may just be the nature of their set.

I had a bottom set just before I went on ML who ended up with Gs, Fs and Es and I was chuffed - they'd done SO WELL!! They came in with n's, Bs or had had no previous formal schooling. I used to tell them similar things (i.e. you haven't failed) because if I didn't their confidence would have been shot to hell. And it was true - they hadn't failed. And actually I'd done a Bloody Good Job with them!
Of course, my current top set would be expected to be better than that!

Re the mocks - if we use historical papers then we use the grade boundaries of that exam and we explain to any year 10 that they won't have covered the whole course yet so of course their grade will improve. The recent March Exam was seen as easier so had a higher pass mark. Usually in maths the grade boundary shifts up and down and you can guess which way based on the exam itself.

However, you know your DD's data (eg KS2 result) best. The thing that I'm most amazed about is that her Target Grade hasn't been shared. Without knowing that, you can't assess whether or not her F is indeed a 'fail' (for her).