to worry about people being told to cut out dairy

[noblegiraffe]

I've noticed on here recently (or maybe I've only just noticed?) that if a mother posts about a fussy baby and she's breastfeeding, it is quite common for someone to suggest the mother try cutting dairy from her diet.

Now I'd have thought that cutting out dairy should be something done carefully and with dietary advice on how to compensate for it.

If you're cutting out dairy, that means you have to cut out nice things like cheese, milk in your cereal/tea, and if you're doing it thoroughly, things like chocolate that contain milk products. This sounds tedious and not very pleasant. It may even convince a mother to give up breastfeeding.

So I would have thought that cutting out dairy isn't something that should be taken lightly.

Also, babies are quite often fussy, and they quite often grow out of it without any intervention. A mother who has cut out dairy may attribute the improvement to her restricted diet and continue on it for months despite it being completely unnecessary and making no difference at all.

It's different to when people make other suggestions on here like 'it might be reflux' because people will need to see their GP before getting a prescription, and tips like propping up the cot are harmless even if it's not reflux. People can go ahead and cut out dairy without any health professional giving it the once-over.

So, AIBU to worry about this advice being bandied about? Or do people not attempt dietary restrictions on the say so of an Internet forum and I'm worrying about nothing?

Genuine question here: How does dairy get into breast milk?

I know somebody who is cutting out stuff I do worry about her she seems to be doing it to the extreme and she is breastfeeding I think her Dr said to do it but it looks like from her updates on fb that she isn't eating very much her baby is older and eating though

What is my concern? That women are being told to restrict their diet to 'see if it helps' when
a) that's quite a big ask and
b) isn't often the cause of the problem which may resolve with time anyway, leaving a woman on an unnecessary restricted diet for no good reason and
c) should probably be at least run past a health professional.

If I had eliminated dairy from my diet before seeing the paediatrician who had deliberately left a long gap before the appointment to see if time would heal the problem, neither he nor I would be any the wiser as to whether the problem was dairy, or had simply gone away.

OP do you know tha drinking cows milk and inhibit iron absorbtion? Most toddlers who prefer a lovely bottle of milk rather than food (common) are likely to be anaemic.

Did you know that there is pus in most regular bottles of milk in the supermarkets? Do you know thay its a great cause of mucus build up in ourselves?

@mucus build up

Yabu. Why would you not cut out one thing for a measly few weeks to save pumping your baby full of medicines for colic and reflux. Calcium can easily be made up through vegetables pulses beans and about fifty different milk substitutes that are available. If it doesn't work out then fine but its widths shot when it can make such a difference.ilk is for cows. It's the biggest allergen in the world many many adults and children all over the world struggle to digest the milk. Six weeks dairy free verses months of medication and sleepless nights. No brainer IMO.

Obviously reflux isn't caused by milk but the symptoms are very similar in some cases.

noble, I am not sure why Whether calcium can be found elsewhere and whether you think cows milk is suitable for human consumption is completely irrelevant tbh and view on the consumption of cows milk is irrelevant.

Because tbh this is the whole point. If you can get all the nutrition you need from other sources than dairy, why is it an issue to stop have dairy?
Some people will have very very little dairy in their diet anyway, because of the way they eat. And they are still healthy. So why is it such a bad thing?

I also don't buy into the whole 'you should only do that under your GP supervision' as if
1- people weren't able to decide by themselves what to do to replace their source of calcium.
2- their GP would actually hold their hands to stop using dairy. My experience is that, having being referred to a dietician for that, well I was very much left to my own devices. The best I got was a lost of foods that also have calcium in it. Apart from that. Nothing.

So I would really appreciate you explaining in more details why you think it is dangerous to stop/reduce dairy intake. And why this would be more dangerous than, say, starting one the 5:2 diet, low carbs diet etc etc

noblegiraffe giving birth to a baby drug free is a 'big ask' but some mums feel it can benefit the baby, lots of things in motherhood are a big ask, but we do it.

No it may not be the cause of the problem but when you watch your baby screaming and rolling in pain for days, weeks and months on end then you want to do anything to help.

And as for C, well - please, go into MN - allergy forum and see which one of those mums had a GP with any knowledge on allergies because I am yet to find one. GPs ate notoriously uneducated when it comes to allergies and intolerances, so to find one who'd suggest such a thing off their own back is very, very, very rarely going to happen,

Ive heard of children going into anaphylactic shock after milk, and still the GP questioned it, people pay hundreds to go private to prove it (always proved - obviously) if you dont believe me, the allergy forum is easy to find, I will link it if you cant find it.

My friend had a horrendously unsettled baby and tried everything. It was suggested to her in the early days to try cutting out dairy and she waved it away thinking everyone on the internet was "obsessed with dairy".

It was only much later when she started weaning that she started to notice a pattern and rethought, deciding to give the elimination diet a go. Massive change in baby. Tests were run and it was then discovered that he had multiple intolerances, but she really had to fight to get this diagnosed and actually the fact she'd done this diet did help her case.

Once it was diagnosed she was offered special formula on prescription too, so it's not woman-controlling at all tbh - there are medical alternatives if tou don't want to change your dirt.

noblegiraffe I think you're projecting your own thoughts onto others (e.g. cutting out dairy = big dietary change; missing out on nice things). You don't talk about concern over particular nutrients.

Dairy is a made-up food group (unlike e.g. protein) so it's quite easy to survive without it and get the nutrients elsewhere. Many people think it's essential for bones due to calcium content, but really bone health is about so much more than calcium intake.

wheresmycaffiendrip actually, reflux is often caused by an undiagnosed case of milk allergy or intolerance, its a common symptom in fact. Usually the first symptom.

DUCK suggesting that people give up cows milk (which is different to eliminating dairy from your diet, btw) because it's full of pus is fine, whatever floats your boat.
That's a completely different argument to 'your baby's fussy? Try eliminating dairy'.

And my baby wasn't just fussy, she had blood in her stools. A proper objective worrying symptom that you could point to and say 'that's a sign of CMPI'. And yet even then cutting dairy from my diet wouldn't have helped, because it was something else.

my friend also was talking to a Paediatric consulatant, frankly, his diagnosis was symptom-based entirely and did not (and could not) relate to testing or any objective framework.

the symptoms were entirely those of a baby who had been tube fed (pain when feeding, short duration of feeds) and had had even worse feeding advice (HV recommended timed 3-hourly feeds...nasty stress rash ensued and baby fed even less!)

I am referring to a study of Swedish BF mothers whose babies had a 1.9 % incidence of cows milk protein intolerance. that is why i say it is uncommon in BF babies of Northern European descent.

here

But if the woman is OK to do that, even if in your own point of view this is a big uptake, why should be stopped from doing that?

Yes you could wait and have a very unhappy baby for a few months and do nothing.
You might be able to cope with it and be happy to just hope it will pass. I couldn't do that. For all the time, ds wasn't unhappy I tried all the things that could have caused it. Process of elimination. (And found that he was allergic to cow's milk)
I would have being very unhappy if I hadn't tried all I could to help him and sit there 'just hoping it would pass'

I was told by my allergist that the CMP gets through the Brest milk, not dairy per se. He said to cut it out, as well as peanuts and citrus, and iwhen dd's excema cleared up to then re-intro each thing one at a time and see if she reacted. There was an overnight improvement in her skin. I would definitely agree to always consult a professional.

noble it's not because your baby's fussiness wasn't linked to dairy that it is the case for all babies...

Eh? Im talking about breast feeding mothers eliminating cows milk. Just like you are.

I was just pointing out that milk isnt the wonderful thing you seem to think it is.

going totally dairy free could increase your childs chance of a longer term intolerance. (interesting to see results of EAT study)

it could mean you drink things like soya milk that they are may equally be intolerant to.

it is very difficult - think about all those cups of tea !

lady the official advice is to see your GP before starting a low carb/fasting diet or whatever anyway, so I don't see any difference there.

People seem to be under the illusion that eliminating dairy is simply milk and cheese. If you're doing it properly, milk/milk protein is in so many different foodstuffs that it really isn't as easy as you make out.

I also don't think it would undermine breastfeeding. DS1 has CMPI and I was offered the alternative to giving up dairy - hypoallergenic formula. Believe me, no chocolate, cake, cheese, tea, pizza etc was significantly easier to live with than trying to get my baby to drink the formula. It's vile stuff (nb - specifically talking about the stuff they give CMPI babies here, the normal formula is fine). If I'd literally had no other alternative I would have done whatever was necessary to give it to him, but as I could BF it was much easier to restrict my diet.

Edgar thats intolerance, but what about those of us who have babies with CMPA? Totally different kettle of fish, exactly the same symptoms if breast feeding mum ingests milk.....

As far as I know CMP allergy is more common that CMPintolerance

My gp gave a newborn dd laxatives. All I wanted was a pepti milk. I knew it was the milk causing the bloating and grunting. It was awful. I don't understand why a dietary change is avoided in favour of medications. Who would give drugs to a baby with all the risks that entails without exploring as to whether simply giving up milk would help. Obviously if baby needs meds they should be given it. But in some cases it could so easily be avoided and surely that's better??

As others have pointed out dairy isn't a natural part of the human diet and so really there is no such thing as lactose intolerant, we all are really. It's milk for baby cows, not humans. Also we are the only mammal to have milk after infancy and definitely the only mammal to have another animals milk... Its unnatural and weird.

There are plenty alternatives so you don't miss out on 'nice' things at all. Soy, hemp, coconut, rice, oat, almond and hazelnut milks for your cereal and tea, dairy free spread and dairy free chocolate or just dark chocolate.. So ya know, the mum won't die without dairy... Neither will the baby.

Calcium is in the alternate milks, spread, bread, cereals, fruit&veg. I say this as a breastfeeding vegan, perfectly healthy mum and babies

noble you cannot compare low carbing or low calories diets to eliminating milk. If you eliminate milk you get calcium from different sources, low carbing and low calories is dropping something entirely.