to worry about people being told to cut out dairy

[noblegiraffe]

I've noticed on here recently (or maybe I've only just noticed?) that if a mother posts about a fussy baby and she's breastfeeding, it is quite common for someone to suggest the mother try cutting dairy from her diet.

Now I'd have thought that cutting out dairy should be something done carefully and with dietary advice on how to compensate for it.

If you're cutting out dairy, that means you have to cut out nice things like cheese, milk in your cereal/tea, and if you're doing it thoroughly, things like chocolate that contain milk products. This sounds tedious and not very pleasant. It may even convince a mother to give up breastfeeding.

So I would have thought that cutting out dairy isn't something that should be taken lightly.

Also, babies are quite often fussy, and they quite often grow out of it without any intervention. A mother who has cut out dairy may attribute the improvement to her restricted diet and continue on it for months despite it being completely unnecessary and making no difference at all.

It's different to when people make other suggestions on here like 'it might be reflux' because people will need to see their GP before getting a prescription, and tips like propping up the cot are harmless even if it's not reflux. People can go ahead and cut out dairy without any health professional giving it the once-over.

So, AIBU to worry about this advice being bandied about? Or do people not attempt dietary restrictions on the say so of an Internet forum and I'm worrying about nothing?

[Beachcomber]

I wish I had been on MN when DD1 was a baby but I joined much later.

We struggled for months trying to find out what could help her and went from doctor to doctor. Not one of them suggested she had an issue with dairy.

I stumbled on the information myself and it changed our lives. DD had all the classic symptoms; green mucosy stools, projectile vomiting, arching when feeding, reflux, not sleeping, terrible nappy rash, blocked nose, eczema, slow weight gain, etc and not a single doctor diagnosed her correctly (and most of them told me to stop breastfeeding but they didn't have any justification for doing so).

I know if I had been on MN and asked for help we would have been able to help DD much sooner. She is still very allergic to CMP at 9 years old.

[OHforDUCKScake]

awkward anger? I cant see anyone who is angry. Debating, and passionate about belief or experience, but mot angry.

[curryeater]

OHDUCKS - I was going to post something about that.
Awkward - I think you are projecting. I am sorry to hear you had a serious eating disorder and I suspect that this whole conversation is touching a nerve with you.
In the interests of full disclosure: my touched nerve is that I was one of those hellbent breastfeeders who would practically have died rather than give my dcs formula, in my case this single mindedness was associated (as both cause and effect) with PND and I have no idea what advice I would give to someone in my position.
In theory: not worth killing yourself, get a carton of formula and some ear plugs and get a good night's sleep now and then
In practice: the guilt would have made me more depressed

So I am attuned, as we all are, to the piercing bat-squeak of maternal guilt, which resonates nastily with the ever present call to women to "watch what they eat" and it adds up to a very uncomfortable hum (explodes in mixed noisy metaphors)

[Beachcomber]

Also, I don't know if this was anyone else's experience but some of the doctors we saw pretty much said that I was making DD ill because I was neurotic.

I was stressed and worried and very very tired but I wasn't neurotic you knobheads - I had a very sick child.

So I absolutely don't see suggesting a mother cuts dairy out as a 'mother blaming' thing to do - quite the opposite. It is listening to the mother and th baby and offering a possible solution based on symptoms.

The notion that I was making my baby sick because the arseing medical professionals didn't have a clue what was going on with her was much more damaging to both of us than me cutting out dairy.

[Minifingers]

YABU

Do you work for the dairy industry or something?

Lord knows how the human race thrived for millions of years without cows milk products (and how half the world still does...)

[TooExtraImmatureCheddar]

What no one has pointed out in this whole thread is this: People on the internet can advise all they like. I could advise you to feed your baby boiled grass and cow shit. You do not have to take my advice! You are an adult with responsibility for your baby. If you don't agree with internet advice then don't try it. If, on the other hand, you think there might be something in it, then do some research and give it a go. All other posters are doing is saying 'hey, here's something you may not have thought of'. It is entirely up to you whether you do it or not.

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

That's awful beach no one ever suggested it was my fault, my experiences were more total dismissal from anyone I tried to tell. I knew I was right. I knew what the problem was but drs dismissed her bloated tummy as part of being prem. seriously 1 day of 37 weeks isn't really prem. health visitors just banged on about feeding three hourly cos she wasn't gaining weight. She's been ill what did they expect and I said repeatedly the milk was upsetting her and they just carried on saying feed her three hourly. Drs gave movicol and another tried to say it was colic or silent reflux. I had to literally turn round and beg. I told the dr that I'm
Not scamming free formula that I wouldn't have had a baby if I couldn't afford to actually feed her and of it doesn't work o won't ask for any more but please let me try. Lo and behold instant transformation from bottle one. Of I'd have breasted I'd have given up the little dairy I did consume in a heart beat! Wouldn't have thought twice. As it happens she's still dairy free now and aside from a splash I'm coffee I hardly eat because I cook one meal for all.

[OHforDUCKScake]

I see what you are saying TooExtreme but its just not true unfortunately. Mums get ill informed and it can be fatal. Putting rusks in bottles, feeding the baby mash and gravy (one baby died of that) and more.

Sure maybe no one will suggest those things on MN, but they get suggested thats for sure and desperate and tired mums listen.

However, milk elimination is one they should listen to.

[trixymalixy]

I also think YABU.

My DS and I went through a couple of months of hell before finally discovering the reason for all the screaming and vomiting was allergies.

My GP would only consider reflux as a diagnosis and when the reflux meds made no difference said that there was nothing else he could do and that it was a "minor inconvenience" that DS would grow out of .

I was made to feel like a total neurotic mother for suggesting a dairy allergy and the idea that CMP could pass through breast milk was laughed at.

Well I am very very grateful to all who posted their experiences on here because it WAS a CMP allergy (and soya, egg, legumes etc). And I for one will continue to post my experiences if the symptoms sound similar to what we went through.

It's not very hard to avoid cow's milk, and for me the potential benefits to someone outweigh the risk that someone cuts out dairy and it's not the cause.

[noblegiraffe]

Really, OH? You think the mother on the nappy rash thread should eliminate milk? Or the mother with the 3 month old who is fussy in the evenings? (Cluster feeding more likely, no?)

[Beachcomber]

Wheresmycaffeinedrip - we live in France which may have had something to do with it.

There is much less of a breastfeeding culture here and some of the doctors we saw thought that I was being crazy hormonal unreasonable mum because I didn't want to stop breastfeeding. I would have done if anyone had convinced me that it would help my baby, but they just seemed to suggest it as something to try because let's face it, formula is ace and breastfeeding is a bit old hat (French culture for you!).

I didn't want to stop breastfeeding and I suggested an elimination diet to an allergist we saw and he said I would never stick to it and that it was probably pointless and that if I didn't calm down I shouldn't be surprised that my baby was sick. We wrote to complain about him.

Anyway I'm glad we didn't listen to them because it did turn out to be a problem with dairy and when we tested DD she wouldn't have been able to have formula anyway and was much better having my dairy free breastmilk than hypo-allergenic formula (thankfully it exists for those who need it though).

[Cloverer]

Dairy isn't really an important part of anyone's diet, so no harm in cutting it out.

Also, lots of babies are allergic to cow's milk protein, so it is worth trying.

It's different to all the old wives tales about cabbage/peppers/onion/fizzy drinks getting through the milk to give your baby wind. I do roll my eyes at those but understand that people with an unsettled baby just feel like they need to try something to help.

[Beachcomber]

The dismissal thing is awful.

A work colleague of mine ended up with her baby in hospital, anaemic from passing blood and failing to thrive due the irritation and damage in his gut from CMP.

And reflux is such a load of shit - it is such a non diagnosis. It is like saying your child has a temperature and thinking that is a diagnosis. Reflux is a symptom.

I don't think about all this too much nowadays as it was a while ago, but my DD and I went through hell and I'm still angry at the utter incompetence of the doctors we saw.

I think things may be changing a bit now though - DD was in hospital recently and the ward was very accommodating of her CMP allergy whereas 8 years ago she was in for an operation and the hospital actually called a social worker on me when I told them that we needed a dairy free diet for our hospital stay. Fuckers

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

Yes beach it is a god send. Transformed my baby. She never smiled I actually thought there was something really really wrong cos she just wasn't smiling and I thought I was being a shit mum cos she just wasn't happy. I'm sure you know how crap that feels.

It was so simple to fix to. I'm so glad that she was my second because If she had been my first I wouldn't have had a clue that things shouldn't be that way.

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

She was tiny beach and she was ill as it was as she was septic. I'd already noticed problems and add iv antibiotics to an already struggling tummy, I'm sure u can imagine. She was five and a half pounds probably less at that point , not an ounce of fat on her. She had no bum as there was no fat to pad it put like a normal baby bottom. Yet she had this massive tummy. But that's normal
Apparently. Really? On a couple of oz of milk? It's normal?

[MrsRickyMartin]

YANBU.

[noblegiraffe]

Cloverer, re 'lots of babies are allergic to cows milk protein'

Edgar posted a link earlier looking at Swedish babies
"1 079 of 1 548 newborn infants were followed during their first year. 328 were prospectively contacted once a month. 751 were followed up at child welfare clinics. Altogether 20 were diagnosed as being cow's milk protein intolerant (1.9%). Symptoms from the gastrointestinal tract and the skin predominated. Only 2 had respiratory symptoms. Ten had their symptoms within one week after the introduction of cow's milk, 3 of them at their first cow's milk-containing meal. A further 4 already had symptoms when fed only human milk. The others (6 infants) showed symptoms after more than one week on a cow's milk containing diet. Before 2 years of age, 13 had recovered. Twelve of the cow's milk protein intolerant infants also showed adverse reactions to other foods, soy-protein intolerance being the most common (7 infants). A family history of allergy was found in 35% (116) of the 328 infants and in 70% (14) of those with cow's milk protein intolerance."

So 4 out of around 1,000 babies had symptoms of CMPI when exclusively bfed. That's not lots of babies! Nor is 20 out of 1,000 who were eventually diagnosed.

[Beachcomber]

That was our experience too.

DD was tiny with this big tummy. I can hardly bear to look at photos of the time - she looks so sick and I can't believe we were just fobbed off with nonsense about her being born early (only 2 weeks), me being neurotic etc.

Undiagnosed dairy issues cause so much distress in babies (and therefore their parents).

Better a mother cuts dairy out her diet unnecessarily for a few weeks or a baby tries hypo formula for a while than a child goes undiagnosed with this distressing condition.

Big hugs to all those who went through it ((((()))))

[Joiningthegang]

I wish I did it before my sOn was 10 months - he was so much happier and content without dairy - go advice (no dietary advice though)

IMO lots of people would benefit from this - after 2 years he could tolerate dairy again.

Yabu - if people want to give up dairy to benefit their uncomfortable crying babies there is information out there.

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

I'm still bitter about it now. The pregnancy was awful and I felt so grateful to have her. But she was so ill the first few months. And although probably unrelated to the cmpi ( maybe) it can't have helped that her body was going through even more stuff. It was weeks ill never get back. I feel cheated and robbed of the first beautiful weeks with a baby. A baby that's definitely my last. If I had just been able to get through to someone maybe shed have been that little bit stronger.

[OHforDUCKScake]

noble giraffe that was a link about cows milk intolerance the previous poster spoke of allergies of which are far more common. I mentioned this a while back in your thread.

[Beachcomber]

Wheresmycaffeinedrip - I feel exactly the same.

The first few weeks DD was happy and everything was great. We were so happy to have her and I can remember thinking 'this isn't so hard, everyone says having a newborn is really hard'. But it wasn't, she was happy and fed well and slept ok (normal newborn sleep) and then she got sick and refused feeds and vomited everywhere and had violent diarrhoea that shot up the back of her nappy and clothes - and this several times a day. And she cried constantly and was so unhappy.

I too feel robbed. My DD was robbed and we are still bitter too.

She was our first so we had no idea and trusted doctors in the beginning.

She was so brave but I'm gutted she went though those months and I still wonder if they affect her now (gut issues and underweight).

More hugs for all of us... (((((())))))

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

((()))) to you too!!! It's awful. I'm soooo lucky to see her thriving now. There's a couple of unrelated issues but nothing that makes her sick. In fact she's really robust I'm confident it's not affected her. I've also made the decision to keep her dairy free as I see no need to have her drink it now when she's so much healthier than her sister was at the same age.

[Beachcomber]

Glad your DD is doing well! ((()))

[noblegiraffe]

OH that's just wrong. Intolerances are more common than allergies.