to worry about people being told to cut out dairy

[noblegiraffe]

I've noticed on here recently (or maybe I've only just noticed?) that if a mother posts about a fussy baby and she's breastfeeding, it is quite common for someone to suggest the mother try cutting dairy from her diet.

Now I'd have thought that cutting out dairy should be something done carefully and with dietary advice on how to compensate for it.

If you're cutting out dairy, that means you have to cut out nice things like cheese, milk in your cereal/tea, and if you're doing it thoroughly, things like chocolate that contain milk products. This sounds tedious and not very pleasant. It may even convince a mother to give up breastfeeding.

So I would have thought that cutting out dairy isn't something that should be taken lightly.

Also, babies are quite often fussy, and they quite often grow out of it without any intervention. A mother who has cut out dairy may attribute the improvement to her restricted diet and continue on it for months despite it being completely unnecessary and making no difference at all.

It's different to when people make other suggestions on here like 'it might be reflux' because people will need to see their GP before getting a prescription, and tips like propping up the cot are harmless even if it's not reflux. People can go ahead and cut out dairy without any health professional giving it the once-over.

So, AIBU to worry about this advice being bandied about? Or do people not attempt dietary restrictions on the say so of an Internet forum and I'm worrying about nothing?

[GirlOutNumbered]

Read 'instant' for both bad typos above!

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

If it wasn't for you then fine. There r others on this thread who feel the same. But there is no way that I would hold back the secret that turned my bloated windy grunting miserable non sleeping baby into a happy healthy child who eats well sleeps well and has the most amazing glossy hair and soft skin.

I don't give a stuff if it annoys you, people aren't stupid, they will make the right decision for them as you did. Only difference is they tend to be grateful that people take the time to reply and pass in their experiences. They don't solve the problem and bitch that the rest if us were wrong. It's not about being right. It's about providing information so people can either research on or make a decision.

[JenaiMorris]

You're welcome, Lady.

Beyond having a few dairy farmer friends, I have no vested interest. It just irritates me to see them misrepresented.

[LadyInDisguise]

noble what is it that you want to say?
Is it that, on that particular thread, you don't think giving up dairy was the right answer?
Is it that you don't think giving up dairy will ever make a difference and that, if anyone sees a difference when doing so it's just coincidence?
Is it the fact that people can decide themselves to make a change in their diet, one that you think is very hard to do, without checking with their GP?
Or do you think it's not right that people 'try' different approaches to their parenting, incl the way they feed their baby?

I personally have lots of reasons as to why I think giving up dairy IS a good idea.
Some of which have been told in this thread, others are coming from my own experience.
I also can completely see why someone would try anything and everything to help a crying/upset baby. I did. And truth to be told, stopping dairy isn't the worse thing that a new mum could do on a health pov (both for herself and for her baby).

I genuinely don't understand why this is such a big issue for you.

[GirlOutNumbered]

She can't believe that it was a coincidence that babies get better!

You would not believe the difference in mine!

[OHforDUCKScake]

The difference in mine was the difference between life and death. Quite literally.

[Pancakeflipper]

I wish someone had suggested to me it might a dairy intolerance for my DS2.
Instead he was a very ill baby for 18months and it had a huge effect on our family with his big brother missing out of lots of fun. I missed out on a happy baby, he was a cross monster.

I wouldn't do any elimination lightly ( its very tricky at first) but it would have been good to go through possible reasons.

[LadyInDisguise]

What was worse for me is that I had all the HCP telling me I was making a fuss for nothing, that ds was fine.
That there was no relation between his eczema and dairy and that I could try elimination diet but it would never be conclusive.

And then one day I came across this idea of cutting out dairy.

So i tried and it was like day and night. The child who was unhappy was smiling. The one who didn't want a bfing did. And the eczema eased off.
but it had nothing to do with cutting out dairy .

That is until I went to see the eczema nurse who gave an NHS leaflet saying that dairy passing through breast milk can have that sort of effect.

Tbh, if people were saying 'just cut out dairy and don't bother with your GP', I could see the OP's point.
But I am at loss as to why you shouldn't see your GP and also try other things to ease the discomfort for the baby at the same time. After all, if it works, you will soon know (as if you reintroduce dairy by mistake, your child will get worse ).

[GirlOutNumbered]

I think when we are all struggling, it's fantastic for other mums to throw out advice.
I was 'lucky' with DS1 he presented quite bad symptoms so he went straight to a&e and a paediatrician. My doctor had never heard if CMPI.
when DS2 started to get unwell, I had already been through it once so I knew what to do. I just asked to be referred straight to the dietician, again as Dr was clueless.
If this hadn't have happened though, I would have been so pleased to try it from advice and see it making a difference.

[OHforDUCKScake]

See noble? These people weren't heard by doctors, or doctors hadn't even heard of CMPI or CMPA.

So taking into consideration that a GP is extremely unlikely to suggest eliminating milk, don't you think its better a mother try it off her own back than not at all and continue to have a baby who suffers, sometimes horrendously?

[EglantinePrice]

The thread you linked to was littered with people suggesting, seeking professional advice including going to A&E. The OP had spoken to the HV, OOH Dr and been to A&E. They'd all reassured her and sent her away. So if people want to suggest dairy free as a possibility I really think that's a good idea.

As someone else said, I'd be surprised if they kept it a secret.

You seem to have a huge confidence in GP's/HV. I think this is a little misplaced. With the best will in the world they don't know everything.

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

But ducks the suffering can be justified cos it might not be the milk and they might well grow out of it. We can't have dairy free appearing to be the solution when it isn't.

[TenaciousOne]

I think YABU. DS reacts to dairy, we tried eliminating it from my diet(BF) and he was a much happier baby. Wider family gets involved and they decide it's not dairy. I have dairy unwittingly (told there was no milk in it at all, and they had used the 'special' milk) and we have the old baby/toddler back who won't sleep, awful painful poohs, has to be propped up to sleep etc...

Even when they see first hand what diary does to him, they still insist dairy is not the issue. I have a friend who will give DS her ice cream and then when he gets upset hands him back. She insists it can't be a dairy thing because he'll happily eat it and her other friend won't eat dairy due to his allergy. Err her friend is an adult and understands if I eat A, I'm not very well; DS on the other hand was barely 1 so had no understanding of eating X will result in pain.

If women don't want to try cutting out dairy that is their choice however, in my experience cutting out dairy has solved issues and I'm glad I tried it.

[noblegiraffe]

In just the last two weeks I have seen 'cut out dairy' given as a suggestion to a 3 month old who is fussy in the evenings, and as a suggestion for a case of bad nappy rash.

These are not the desperate parents who have been battling for months with a seriously unhappy baby that you think are being advised at long last the solution to all their troubles.

[TenaciousOne]

Also, my GP insisted babies don't suffer from lactose intolerance when we went to see him about DS. When I spoke to him I didn't mention lactose, I simply said he seemed to react to dairy. The consultant saw us for less than five minutes in which he said reintroduce every 6 months. HV told us to try cry it out in an attempt to get him to sleep through the night, my issue wasn't the wakes ups but the screaming in the night unless he was propped up almost sitting.

[noblegiraffe]

I'm not saying that CMPI is never an issue and that cutting out dairy is never the solution, but that it seems to be bandied about far too freely these days and that far too many women seem to be putting themselves on a restricted diet unnecessarily.

And as Edgar pointed out, restricted diets may even cause intolerances later on.

[TenaciousOne]

nobie we didn't start cutting out dairy until DS was roughly 3 months old. We thought the wanting to be curled up on us day and night was him just being a newborn (which it probably was a mixture of both) it took that long to notice if I had a large intake of dairy he was projectile vomit everywhere, the first time at 2 weeks old we didn't so much as ignore but worried about him being sick not the cause. 2 weeks later when he did it again (in my mouth) the big thing that stuck out was the milk chocolate bar which I hadn't had in ages (nearly exactly 2 weeks previously). It took a couple more incidents to link them. I then cut out all uncooked dairy, no more projectile vomiting but he was still not sleeping. Cutting out all dairy and he slept a lot better and he had nicer nappies, no screaming poohs that were mucous filled.

[OHforDUCKScake]

And I will KEEP banding it about. To catch the few that have suffered, and it is milk.

This weekend I had an email of a lady from MN who posted in chat a few weeks ago about her baby who never slept and never settled and she was going insane with lack of sleep.

I instantly though CMPI or CMPA but didnt jump to it. I asked her a few questions and it transpired her baby had the typical green nappies, sometimes bloody, dennie-morgan folds etc etc, and all the HCP's hadnt helped at all.

I PM'd her and said it sounded like CMPA, I explained why, told her about this and that.

Her reply yesterday was amazing, she said she'd cut out dairy for 2 weeks and the difference was incredible. She had a happy, sleeping baby. She used the actual words "You've changed my life."

Im just very very glad I got to help her when the so called proffesionals couldnt, now long would it have continued for? Weeks? Months? A year?

Its extremely detrimental to the gut to continue to be fed an allergen. I know a child with horrific problems because of it, regularly being fed directly into his stomach.

I will forever and a day, continue to tell mums to consider eliminating milk if I thought it would help.

[curryeater]

YANBU. Especially because women are socialised to respond to all pressures and stresses by "being more perfect" in ways that usually mean eating less, or eating a smaller variety of foods, usually specifically excluding fats or animal products. But most of the time the problems in that woman's life, or her children's lives, will not be remotely ameliorated by her taking some ascetic stance of self-denial. But we are so quick to jump to it, we "hear" this message so much more clearly than others. (Even weight loss - where necessary - is not assisted by the standard ascetic advice to cut out, or almost cut out, fat)

BUT mainstream medical nutritional advice is often a bit rubbish. A mother of a child who is having difficulties cannot be blamed for being willing to try anything, on anyone's suggestion, as anything to do with diet is so poorly understood and / or represented by GPs.

[TenaciousOne]

No one is saying stick to a restricted diet though. They are saying try it and seek medical advice. Normally medical advice will indicate to reintroduce every so many months, previously I had to reintroduce every 6 months now they are suggesting every 2 months.

I don't see what the issue with saying this worked for me with a baby with similar symptoms. It might not work but whats the issue with not having dairy for 1 or 2 weeks and then reintroducing. You seem to be indicating that mothers are advised not to reintroduce which I have never seen on the contrary I was advised to eliminate and then reintroduce to see it that was the cause.

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

But you can't leave a baby suffering for fear that later on they may become intolerant to something. ANYONE can become intolerant or allergic up anything at any time. Through illness, poor diet, medication, or for no reason what so ever. Try it, get the baby settled and then re introduce gradually. If they do become intolerant to milk in later life then so be it. You don't know for sure if its anything to do with what happened as a baby. And quite frankly if they are happy who cares if they never eat milk again. There's chocolate, yogurt, ice cream, sweets, cakes, etc it really isn't a case of eating card board any more. My dairy free dd eats perfectly well thank you. It's not a struggle at all.

[TenaciousOne]

curry we're not suggesting that eliminating dairy from your diet will make you the perfect mother. We're simply saying our baby presented with x symptoms and it turned out to be CMPI/CMPA, your baby is presenting with the same have you tried it.

Also eliminating dairy will normally mean you eat a wider variety of foods to make up for the loss of nutrients found in dairy. I for one had never drunk oat milk/coconut milk or put these things in my food DS.

[noblegiraffe]

They are saying try it and seek medical advice

I'm not talking about posters on here who say that they carefully analyse a myriad of symptoms and suggest the OP considers a CMPI. That's fine. I'm talking about posters who simply bumble onto fussy baby threads (or nappy rash ones!) and say 'have you tried cutting out dairy?'

[TenaciousOne]

I meant to say I had not put these things in my food until I had DS

[awkwardsis]

I am genuinely confused at all the actual anger that this seems to provoke in people. Truly. Get a grip. Curry, I have had an eating disorder, a serious one. This is in no way comparable. If I didn't want to cut out the milk, I had the option to use formula. This isn't about using dairy as a stick to beat women with fgs. I am happy for people to suggest it wheee there's a possibility of it being an issue. I've been on MN almost ten years. Until ds was born last year I'd never even heard of cmpi. It's something that happened to other people, and any references to it went totally over my head. But when it was relevant to me, by god was I glad so done suggested it. So please, can you all just get a grip. It helped my ds. Perhaps it will help someone else too. That's it. No agenda.