to worry about people being told to cut out dairy

[noblegiraffe]

I've noticed on here recently (or maybe I've only just noticed?) that if a mother posts about a fussy baby and she's breastfeeding, it is quite common for someone to suggest the mother try cutting dairy from her diet.

Now I'd have thought that cutting out dairy should be something done carefully and with dietary advice on how to compensate for it.

If you're cutting out dairy, that means you have to cut out nice things like cheese, milk in your cereal/tea, and if you're doing it thoroughly, things like chocolate that contain milk products. This sounds tedious and not very pleasant. It may even convince a mother to give up breastfeeding.

So I would have thought that cutting out dairy isn't something that should be taken lightly.

Also, babies are quite often fussy, and they quite often grow out of it without any intervention. A mother who has cut out dairy may attribute the improvement to her restricted diet and continue on it for months despite it being completely unnecessary and making no difference at all.

It's different to when people make other suggestions on here like 'it might be reflux' because people will need to see their GP before getting a prescription, and tips like propping up the cot are harmless even if it's not reflux. People can go ahead and cut out dairy without any health professional giving it the once-over.

So, AIBU to worry about this advice being bandied about? Or do people not attempt dietary restrictions on the say so of an Internet forum and I'm worrying about nothing?

Honestly, it is not a big deal to do without dairy for the 3-4 weeks that a CMP trial would take. There is no evidence that dietary restriction leads to increased sensitisation on re-introduction of that foodstuff. There is, however, evidence that CMP can cause Food Protein Induced Enterocolitis Syndrome (FPIES), Oesinophilic Oesophagitis, other forms of colitis, faltering growth, anaemia, secondary lactose intolerance, and feed refusal/ aversions.

I know the plural of anecdote is not evidence, but out of my immediate group of friends, the only one who was not either anaemic, lacking in vitamin D or vitamin B12 during pregnancy, was my vegan-since-the-age-of 17 best mate.

Of course it's not appropriate to suggest dairy intolerance/ allergy solely because a baby has nappy rash or is fussy in the evenings. To be perfectly honest, the majority of threads I see on here where dairy allergy is suggested as a possible cause are not predominantly cases of babies suffering minor inconveniences like these.

Going back to the OP, IME you are far more likely to stop breastfeeding if you are driven into the ground by a wailing banshee who vomits all over you ever half an hour, and sleeps for 6 hours in every 24, than if you have to cut out dairy for a few weeks . I speak from experience.

trixy - I think the point is that calcium isn't the only nutrient children need from milk, and that managing to get all of them on a regular basis into the diet is not at all easy.

It is similar to how vegetarians think they get enough iron from various other sources, so what's the problem with not eating meat? They make the mistake of thinking iron is all meat is good for and don't realise that it is quite hard to get that much iron on a regular basis if you are going to be vegetarian. (A recent example is a vegetarian friend who was shocked to see that her blood tests show that she is terribly anaemic, despite the care she puts into planning her diet)

Yes, cow milk is best for baby cows and breast milk is best for human babies. However, if you are not prepared to breastfeed for 18 years and if your child isn't in the 1% or so of the population who are allergic to cow's milk, I fail to see why you would want to restrict his diet to avoid milk.

apachepony, there is no conclusive evidence nor scientific consensus that peanut allergy is more likely if mothers avoid peanuts during pregnancy.

I cut out dairy a few months back.

Have a soya alternative.

I no longer have the bowel issues I suffered for 20 years.

I'm healthier than ever.

YABU. People give advice on the internet. It's up to the reader to make the sensible and mature decision on if and how to follow it.

OH - babies being fussy and serious medical issue symptoms arnt really the same are they.

Dd1 and dd2 vomited like the exorcist in their first 3 months every single day. Neither are allergic to cmp. Actually dd2 could be I suppose, there's still time for arguments sake.

cote that study you linked to stated that few children drank high calcium drinks or took supplements. 9 were also obese which means they clearly already had a poor diet. It is possible to be mal nourished even if you eat everything. For example you can't eat crap all the time and think a glass of milk will make up the short fall.

If you rely on one thing to provide your nutrition then obviously of you take it away you will become ill. It's all about balance

From the FSA:

In August 2009, the Government revised its advice to consumers about eating peanuts during pregnancy, breastfeeding and the first few years of life, in relation to the risk of developing peanut allergy in childhood.

The change in advice followed a major review of the scientific evidence that showed there is no clear evidence that eating or not eating peanuts (or foods containing peanuts) during pregnancy, breastfeeding or early childhood has any effect on the chances of a child developing a peanut allergy. Therefore, the Government?s previous advice that women may wish to avoid peanuts during pregnancy and breastfeeding and not introduce peanuts into their child?s diet before three years of age, if their child has a family history of allergy, was no longer appropriate.

Cote, the milks I listed are all enriched with vitamins and minerals other than calcium, it was just that the last study you linked to was specifically about calcium deficiency.

Who exactly is suggesting cutting milk out of a non allergic child's diet for no good reason?

Plenty of us on the allergy boards manage to bring up non deficient children without cow's milk and it's really not that hard. In fact I'm willing to bet that as more thought goes into it that they're likely to be less deficient than a lot of kids who do eat dairy.

That should have read:

Who exactly is suggesting cutting milk out of a non allergic child's diet for 18 years for no good reason?

trixy - re "Who exactly is suggesting cutting milk out of a non allergic child's diet for no good reason?"

Believe it or not, it has become a bit of a standard advice on the internet to new mums struggling with fussy babies or those with reflux, odd-colored poo etc.

If you read the OP, you will see that is the sort of thing it is talking about.

Ah x-post

That "breastfeed them for 18 years, then" comment was at people saying that children don't need cow's milk. And there was a after it.

Where?

I fail to see why people think its such a bad thing to cut dairy out for a couple of weeks? If it helps then fantastic, if it doesn't then I hardly think either the mother or the baby are going to become massively deficient in such a short space of time even if the mother doesn't substitute for the milk.

In my case the difference in my DS was obvious within a day or two.

Cote - but children don't need milk for 18 years They need milk for 2 years-ish, during infancy.

I'm on my second round of dairy free, as DS2 has CMPI. I feel fantastic.
I would say there has been no impact whatsoever on my children either.
Both have vitamin drops too, fwiw. Which is recommended for all children under 5.

Well, some people live quite healthily and happily without any dairy at all - e.g., vegans.

Also Asians, Africans, Indigenous people from north and south America, Australia various pacific islands.

Basically any one who is not European or of European descent, plus the percentage who are European but can't tolerate lactose.

I'm currently on week 3 of a no dairy trial and its really not that hard to do, assuming you can read to check ingredients... (And I don't eat meat either). I might have:

Cereal (with almond milk) or toast with spread and jam for breakfast

Lentil and veg soup for lunch served with a green salad

Home made veg curry and rice for dinner

Fruit, crisps, nuts, biscuits, cake, hummus and veg for snacks - Aldi's bara brith and pretzels are my latest discoveries.

No milk chocolate is the hardest thing for me and that's not exactly essential is it. I just eat Nakd cocoa bars instead.

As it happens I haven't seen a marked improvement in DS' symptoms so will probably go back to dairy once the three weeks is over (any ideas on other foods that can cause reflux, eczema, wind, liquid poos welcomed!).

A dairy free diet was life changing for us with DS2, the change from a screaming baby who barely slept to a content little buddle within a week or so was amazing.

It wasn't easy to do and going out for a meal was difficult (except for Chinese) - we successfully reintroduced milk very slowly when he was 9 months without any problems.

I fail to see why people think its such a bad thing to cut dairy out for a couple of weeks? If it helps then fantastic

Nappy rash, fussy babies etc may well see an improvement after two weeks (I understand it takes longer than that for milk protein to leave the system though) anyway. The mother will then mistakenly attribute the improvement to the restricted diet, diagnose the baby with a problem it hasn't got and stick with the restricted diet for the entire period of breastfeeding.
Given that a study linked to upthread suggested that only 4 in 1000 babies suffered symptoms of CMPI from breast milk alone, and given the amount of babies that are fussy, have nappy rash etc, cutting out dairy really shouldn't be a standard suggestion.

Cote You keep going on about people cutting diary out but miss the fact that you need to reintroduce dairy to be sure, unless you child has been diagnosed with CMPA. You only restrict the diet for a few weeks, if when you reintroduce dairy there is no adverse reaction they can go back to a dairy diet.

ivan many babies allergic to milk also have problems with soya. My dd is ok with soya so I haven't ever needed to check ingredients if things I know are dairy free. Soya would be the next thing worth removing but multiple restrictions is where you would need to be extra careful. If it makes a difference avoiding both I would strongly advise a dietitian or someone who can help you stick to a healthy intake.

My DD has lactose intolerance. Her symptoms are 100% textbook. Including vomiting and diarrhea.

She was not diagnosed until age was almost 4, because I was quite sceptical if all the 'it could be dairy' suggestions, and despite taking her to several different GPs/HVs, many times none of them ever suggested any kind of food intolerance to me.

Eventually I did try it for myself, it does work and every time she has had even the tiniest bit of lactose since she has reacted with diarrhea in the next 20mins-2hrs (as I say completely classic symptoms)

In the meantime, all the things she was misdiagnosed as (reflux, toddler diarrhea, constipation) have meant more months, more years of her condition being aggravated. Can you imagine having diarrhea for four years and then tell me that is harmless? Because it isn't harmless at all.

I'm actually not European, and my father was lactose intolerant as a child which you would hope a GP would have picked up on as a risk factor, but no that didn't happen.

YABU. I'm glad your child isn't allergic to dairy, but mine is and I should have cut it out sooner.

Noble, it might take longer than two weeks for the CMP to leave your system completely, but really you should see an improvement very quickly.

Look at how many people on this thread who had GPs who refused to believe their baby was reacting to their breast milk and it turned out to be genuine allergies/intolerances. I bet none of them are included in those figures you give. ALL of them are grateful to people sharing their stories in the Internet.

Really YABVVU, and no way will I stop suggesting it on threads. I will remind them to seek medical advice and make sure they have a balanced diet, but quite honestly that medical advice very often isn't there because of the ignorance of GPs when it comes to breast feeding and allergies/intolerances.