To tell my friend I cant see her because of her 3 yo dd?

[bubbagee]

8 months ago, we moved to a new area and I got friendly with a lovely group of women who all have dc's the same age as my ds (3). I became especially good friends with one of the mums as we have very similar interests.

The problem is how her 3 yo dd acts/behaves when she is at my house. She gets hysterical if she asks me, her mum or my ds to do something/say something and we either don't hear her/don't understand what she wants us to do. For example, she wanted ds to play pat a cake and he just couldn't really get the hang of it and she went into this absolute rage of tears, really deafening screaming and almost vomited because she was so worked up. She is a big girl, twice the size of my ds (they are 2 weeks apart in age) and really gets in your face. She gets really angry if me and her mum are talking about something which doesn't include her and will scream this awful high pitched sound until we stop talking and focus all attention on her.

This happens EVERY TIME they come over and if we go their house, even if we meet out.

The problem is, my ds just cant handle it. They came over yesterday and ds went and hid under the bed. When I went up to see what was wrong he was sobbing saying her screaming hurts his ears. They had only just walked in the door and already he was anticipating the drama. When she is having these episodes, my friend cuddles her and tries to placate her by singing but it just doesn't work. When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home and yesterday they were here for 7 hours because every time she tried to get her shoes on she would just have an absolute meltdown. My friend believes in gentle discipline as do I, but I cant expose my ds to this any longer. yesterday was the final straw. I felt like id been battered mentally. He asks me every morning if they are coming over and has a really nervous look on his face. AIBU to talk to my friend about this and say I cant see her because of this? I would suggest we meet up just the two of us, but I know she wouldn't do this because she doesn't like leaving her dd.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

See.. Tell people to read posts like its their friend asking..then put the boot in.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Lovely

[AmberLeaf]

Also (sorry I haven't read the whole thread) I really don't think her dd has SN (cant be certain though obviously) I really think its the way she is parented

Children with no SNs tend not to have 3 hour long catastrophic melt downs.

It is not uncommon for people to think it can all be sorted out with some 'good parenting'

OP, it would be good if you could recommend Mumsnet to your friend, she could post for some advice and as ever Im sure someone would suggest SNs as a possibility and link her to MNSN board. [but first have this thread deleted!] or she could get some general advice that may help her and her DD.

[pictish]

The meltdown most likely didn't go on for three hours though.

She would've kicked off...been appeaed by getting her own way before her mum had another try in a while....which would have been met by another tantrum.

So long as she was getting her way...great....then when she wasn't and mum insisted it was rime to go....kick off. That's what I imagine anyway.

My NT ds2 could have gone on like that for hours if I'd allowed it. He was (and still is) a bloody minded terror!!

[pictish]

appeased even....

[AmberLeaf]

That's what I imagine anyway

Well the OP just said it went on for 3 hours and seeing as she was there I'll take her word over your imaginings.

[lougle]

I feel so sad when these threads degenerate into a war of words.

For what it's worth, I'd still lay money on there being some SN there. Possibly compounded by parenting, who knows, but nonetheless.

You admit that you agree with gentle discipline, OP, and you say you follow the same ideas. Your DS is not like this girl.

I don't follow 'gentle discipline'. I expect my children to do what I (reasonably) ask. If they don't do it, I count to 3. Once I count to 3, they get a sanction appropriate to the situation.

DDs are still hard work at home. Out, they are much better.

This poor woman is going to need some support, somehow. You may not be the one to give it, but I hope she gets it somewhere.

[CarpeVinum]

Children with no SNs tend not to have 3 hour long catastrophic melt downs.

But I don't think she is saying is was non stop. Just it started when shoes were put on, and stopped when people gave up on shoes, began again when shoe assult 2.0 happened and so on and so forth.

So the mums tries to do something, kid screams, mum gives up, tries again after twenty minutes, more screaming, more giving up, trying agsin, more screaming, giveing up....bobs your uncles...three hours later.

[pictish]

Yeah - that's what I think too.

[CarpeVinum]

I'd still lay money on there being some SN there.

There might be. But there is equally simply the possibility that the child has learned that the fastest way to get her own way is to have some kind of "non gentle" response to each and everything thing that does not go her prefered way.

In part she may also be reacting quite so strongly because she is pushing and pushing to find put where the boundries are so she can feel secure that there are some.

Some of the more "alt" parenting practices/philsophies run the risk of making both parent and child feel pretty insecure, out of control and unsure where terra ferma is becuase its just not a good fit for that specific parstn/child combination of personalities.

They can make life pretty hellish for people in the same social circle to boot.

[NeedaWee]

Lol can you imagine someone writing this in 1947. It would have been a good wallop and told to get home. No I take it back, it wouldn't because they weren't as stupid as to let It happen. God, what's become of us.

[Isiolo]

hazeyjane a 'friend's doesn't stay for 7 hours, whilst your own child cries and viewed under the bed, either

It is not ok to teach tour child that they must spend time with someone who intimidates and frightens them and then gets a cuddle for it

If OP wants to maintain the friendship, she might want to try the arduous road of having chats and what have you. She may just want to sack them off. Both perfectly valid choices. There will be other kids that can be friends with the friends child, without being so effected by the behaviour

[JakeBullet]

Ah yes needawee, my son was like this child...he is autistic. But yeah...a good wallop will cure him. Likewise my parenting obviously caused his problems!

We do t know if this child has any special needs or not but at 3 it is not always obvious. From what the OP has posted this is a highly stressful and stressed child. If DS had done this as a three year old I would have hauled him out of the door without shoes simply because I could not bear to outstay my welcome anywhere. I knew he was different at 3 but nobody else did. He was similar to the child the OP posts about.

[AmberLeaf]

3 hours non stop or over 3 hours, either way, neither are normal behavior even with the laxest of parenting.

The OP says she shares similar parenting views as this woman, yet her DS isn't having catastrophic meltdowns.

Like lougle, I'd lay money on there being some kind of SNs.

[AmberLeaf]

Ah yes, the good old cure all of a good wallop.

That's why you never saw children like mine back in the good old days...that and good old institutions.

[CarpeVinum]

neither are normal behavior even with the laxest of parenting

It's not at all unusual behavoir with specific types of parenting that have a philsophical foundation of non coersion at their core.

When it is a poor fit for a specific parent/child combo you can get some right humdingers of behavoir based issues going on.

I ran in circles where No Coersion was de rigure. There is nothing in the OPs post that raises my eyebrows at all. Just ...same old same old.

[hazeyjane]

Even if there aren't any sn, children can go through horrendous phases. Dd2 was so difficult when ds was born (she was 3), that I did wonder whether there was something else going on - I remember posting on here about it, and talking to the dr. I tried everything, and yet she would rage and rage, but I could see that there was fear behind it all. There was a lot going on in our lives, and I could see that her world was being shaken on it's foundations.

Lives are complicated, children are complicated, sn are complicated. These threads often become so black and white -

it is either ineffectual parenting, or sn

all sn behaviours are x,y and z and can be dealt with by applying a,b and c ('my friend has a dc with sn, and only being firm works' etc)

a child either has sn or not (no vague is there anything going on, which is often the reality).

[hazeyjane]

Ah Needawee, has solved it - a good wallop. I forgot that society used to be perfect, there was no crime and folk were all upstanding citizens all because people had been walloped when they were little.

Oh hang on tha'ts a pile of horseshit, isn't it.

[pictish]

3 hours non stop or over 3 hours, either way, neither are normal behavior even with the laxest of parenting.

Lol! Think there's a few on here could claim otherwise! Some kids are very bloody minded. Persistent.

As I say my ds2 would keep it up for ages - he gets very stuck on an idea and would utterly hold the world to ransom in order to get his way. If i allowed it. He is NT btw. He would've gone for three hours on and off easy peasyat 3 - given the chance.

I've already been told how insensitive and bitter I am on this thread. Call me a liar as well....why not?

[Dinkysmummy]

Oh wow, back to the 1947 wallop....

Maybe you should ask SS if that is a valid parenting technique for this era?
I'm sure they will lay down the implications on that one!

Hopefully the OP can sort out her friendship and maybe point her friend in the direction of HV for tips on dealing with challenging behaviour and give the example of the 3 hour (whether it be on/off or full 3 hours) battle of the shoes. Let the professionals deal with the SN/no SN situ.

[CarpeVinum]

Some kids are very bloody minded

Tell me about it.



I had a one make high pitched, high volume, alien sounds all morning.

I feel for him. I feel for my ears too.

[Isiolo]

Serious? I've known plenty of NT 2 and 3 years that could hold forth for a good 3 hours!

[OliviaMMumsnet]

Evening all
Peace love and bank holiday sunshine.

[CarpeVinum]

I have neither a bank holiday nor sunshine.

[Juniperdewdropofbrandy]

Aww glad you were honest with her. Maybe you can support her to find ways to help? She sounds nice, at least she didn't go off on one.