To tell my friend I cant see her because of her 3 yo dd?

[bubbagee]

8 months ago, we moved to a new area and I got friendly with a lovely group of women who all have dc's the same age as my ds (3). I became especially good friends with one of the mums as we have very similar interests.

The problem is how her 3 yo dd acts/behaves when she is at my house. She gets hysterical if she asks me, her mum or my ds to do something/say something and we either don't hear her/don't understand what she wants us to do. For example, she wanted ds to play pat a cake and he just couldn't really get the hang of it and she went into this absolute rage of tears, really deafening screaming and almost vomited because she was so worked up. She is a big girl, twice the size of my ds (they are 2 weeks apart in age) and really gets in your face. She gets really angry if me and her mum are talking about something which doesn't include her and will scream this awful high pitched sound until we stop talking and focus all attention on her.

This happens EVERY TIME they come over and if we go their house, even if we meet out.

The problem is, my ds just cant handle it. They came over yesterday and ds went and hid under the bed. When I went up to see what was wrong he was sobbing saying her screaming hurts his ears. They had only just walked in the door and already he was anticipating the drama. When she is having these episodes, my friend cuddles her and tries to placate her by singing but it just doesn't work. When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home and yesterday they were here for 7 hours because every time she tried to get her shoes on she would just have an absolute meltdown. My friend believes in gentle discipline as do I, but I cant expose my ds to this any longer. yesterday was the final straw. I felt like id been battered mentally. He asks me every morning if they are coming over and has a really nervous look on his face. AIBU to talk to my friend about this and say I cant see her because of this? I would suggest we meet up just the two of us, but I know she wouldn't do this because she doesn't like leaving her dd.

[FoundAChopinLizt]

I have taken my dc and walked out of situations where my dc are being upset or bullied by other children and they are not effectively stopped by the parents. I can see that that is tricky in your own house, you'd have to ask them to leave, which is harder.

[lougle]

I think I would have hugged them, YouTheCat. The day she was born, a midwife thought she had DS. I wasn't offended in the slightest, but checked for characteristic physical signs while she left the room.

When preschool approached me for the 'conversation' I immediately signed all the release forms for them to get support. When the Inclusion Co-ordinator said 'she's immature' I said 'no, actually, I have concerns and want her checked by a Paed.' Fortunately, as she dared to have epilepsy which presented 2 weeks later she jumped the queue, the little minx .

My family though, Grandparents and my Sister. They were horrified that they would dare say DD1 had SN.

[mymatemax]

I cant believe friendships can be this shallow. Surely friendships are about sticking with each other PARTICULARLY when times are tough.
Sometimes our own kids will have to tolerate things that they dont like, as parents its up to us to help them cope... screaming really isnt going to physically hurt him is it?
TBH if you are happy to ditch a friend because the child is going through a difficult phase then really you are not a friend worth having.
I hope you have more supportive friends when your child hits a difficult phase.
Those 7 hours spent at your house maybe saved your friend from cracking up.

[pictish]

Bur Lougle - what do you make of the 7 hour visit?

That's what I'm focusing on tbh, rather than the child's conduct.

[pictish]

Although I do agree with you. It doesn't sound like typical behaviour.

[YouTheCat]

My dad had a medical background and tbh I already had concerns about ds pretty much from birth, I just had no idea what was wrong until ds was about 2 and everything clicked into place.

The thing is though you deal with the issues (as I did) by following your dd and keeping her safe. You wouldn't just leave her to it.

[Bobyan]

So mymate what would you suggest the OP does with her 3 year old? Leave him hiding under the bed?

[pictish]

mymate that is totally unfair.

[lougle]

It depends, pictish.

If it was, say:

10am arrive. Have coffee
12pm OP offers lunch, guest accepts.
1pm finished lunch
Children playing happily.
3pm Guest decides to go home.
2 hours of tantrum avoiding, during which OP offers cup of tea
5pm home finally.

That's much less disgraceful than

10am arrive. Have coffee
12pm, OP makes noises about 'DS you'll need your lunch soon.'
5 hours of tantrum avoiding, during which OP looks pointedly at the door.

[claudedebussy]

well your first priority has to be your ds. your friend certainly isn't looking after his interests is she, if he's hiding under the bed?

so you can't meet her with the kids. suggest a drink in the evening instead.

but remember, this is a short time. soon the kids will be in pre-school and meeting for a morning coffee will be much easier.

[pictish]

2 hours of tantrum avoiding is too long. It's two hours too long. When it's time to leave, you leave.

[Bobyan]

I've been out with my DS and had to leave because he was having a meltdown, he would scream for hours until he made himself physically sick, kick, scratch and lash out at me.
Yes it was hard on me and we are still going through getting his needs diagnosed and assessed.

However I always stood firm with him and the idea of bowing down to his tantrums and inflicting his meltdown on anyone else is totally unfair and ridiculous.

[Bobyan]

20 minutes is too long, let alone 2 hours.

[lougle]

Actually, I've just been reminded of a time when I was heavily pregnant with DD3 (DD1 wasn't flagged with SN until I was 11 weeks pregnant with DD3). I was trying to walk DD1 home from preschool. DD2 was in the buggy. She was only just walking. DD1 refused to go in the buggy. Literally refused, and I couldn't safely get her in there. I know that sounds untrue, but she really was in meltdown.

She insisted I carried her. I was around 29 weeks pregnant. I limped along the road, pushing the buggy with one hand, half carrying DD1, half resting her on the handle bar of the buggy while trying to steer it.

She went into such a meltdown that all I could do was phone my Mum, sit on the pavement cradling her and sing 'rock a bye baby' (it was the song that calmed her), while I waited for her to pick DD1 up and take her the 150 remaining yards home.

I've never felt so low as that day. I was just in despair. I couldn't even get my own daughter home from preschool.

[LondonNinja]

YANBU. Your son is very upset and so are you - sounds bloody awful if this happens all the bloody time... Perhaps, as PPs have said, meet in the park.

And, no, you shouldn't be expected to be telepathic or an amateur medic/child psychologist either. I wouldn't dream of telling a friend whose child was behaving badly that they had SN (unless I had first-hand experience).

If things are that bad and this happens 'all the time' as you say OP, she must surely have thought of having a professional take a view on this child's behaviour? You could meet her one evening for a chat/drink and see how she is, and if she wishes to talk, perhaps?

[K8Middleton]

I only have a tiny idea lougle, barely an idea at all really. My DS had some issues - we thought they were physical but didn't know for sure and there was a possibility they were not and if so they would most likely be permanent (thankfully they weren't but those two years of not knowing were awful). He was miles behind his peers in terms of development and behaviour and I was heartbroken and embarrassed and sick with anxiety. Yes, it was pretty isolating. I told everyone we came into contact with about the symptoms of the problem and most people were sympathetic but we still got some comments and criticisms and unkind behaviour from other children.

I can't pretend to know the realities of living with a child with SEN who you know is not going to get better, but I would like to think I would do what I could to help you if I knew you were upset and trying to do something.

It sounds like the op and her friend need to have an honest discussion. Either the friend needs help because it's a SEN issue or she needs help because it's a poor parenting issue. But gosh, what a hard conversation to have :(

[mymatemax]

its hard they are young, but i would explain that she is upset & screaming becuase she doesnt understand (for whatever reason), but her screaming wont hurt him. He will be fine with a little reassurance from his mum.
My DS1 was 3 when his brother was born & we were thrown in to the SN world, he was suddenlt exposed to children of all shapes & sizes of all abitlties, strange noises & alarming behaviour.. sometimes he was upset by it... but you know what, he's fine, if anything has grown in to an understanding tolerant teenager all the better for it.
This child may just be naughty, there may be more going on, we dont know, either way the mum sounds like she's struggling & needs a good friend.
My ds2 (the disabled one) is extremely quiet & passive & can be very distressed by crying children but we dont remove his from every situation that he may find upsetting.

[mymatemax]

As for the 7 hours, I can remember going to a SN childrens group with ds2 (its where I felt most relaxed), an hour after the session had finished the staff politely asked me to leave as they were closign the centre.
Sanctuary is hard to find when you are struggling

[Bobyan]

The problem is, my ds just cant handle it. They came over yesterday and ds went and hid under the bed. When I went up to see what was wrong he was sobbing saying her screaming hurts his ears

The OP's Ds clearly can't handle it and nor should he have to. As an adult we have a choice about who we see, children don't, so its for the adult to choose the best situation for them. The OP can still be as good friend, but she doesn't have to make her ds see this child.

[lougle]

Thanks K8. It's so wonderful that your DS has grown out of his difficulties. I'm really pleased for you both

I don't think the OP is being unkind. It's very distressing. In fact, my younger children have to cope with DD1's behaviour. They can't opt out. Also, DD1 has to put up with their expectations - she doesn't find that easy and she too, can't opt out.

bubbagee please don't just cry off. Find the courage to tell your friend what's going on. If there's no SN, then she may feel that you just don't gel with her parenting style (I'd be horrified if it was a simply choice on her part, but people make those choices). If there's SN, she may be so grateful to hear it. You don't have to make wild assumptions, but I think it would be safe to say 'friend, do you think you need to get some help for your DD with her anger? It can't be easy to deal with all the time.'

[mymatemax]

Its the OP's choice of course, but as a friend I would never just ditch a friend becuase their childs behaviour didnt fit with my expectaions.
But I suppose we are all different

[pictish]

I think that's good advice Lougle.

[Bobyan]

I would suggest we meet up just the two of us

Where does she say she is ditching her friend? You are being very judgemental and unfair.

[pictish]

Well mymate - that's nice. I'm clearly not as tolerant as you are. When my kids don't enjoy it, and therefore I don't enjoy it, and the friend concerned shows no signs of altering the situation to one that is tolerable, beyond singing and tantrum avoidance seiges on my home, then I'm afraid it's us or them.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

When you have a child with SN that affect their behaviour, your whole world is upside down and your skin grows so thick you barely notice social ettiquette any more.

If you wanted her to leave, you should have made it utterly clear. She is probably far too stressed, tired, mortified, desperate, out of sorts to be able to assess what is appropriate any more.