To tell my friend I cant see her because of her 3 yo dd?

[bubbagee]

8 months ago, we moved to a new area and I got friendly with a lovely group of women who all have dc's the same age as my ds (3). I became especially good friends with one of the mums as we have very similar interests.

The problem is how her 3 yo dd acts/behaves when she is at my house. She gets hysterical if she asks me, her mum or my ds to do something/say something and we either don't hear her/don't understand what she wants us to do. For example, she wanted ds to play pat a cake and he just couldn't really get the hang of it and she went into this absolute rage of tears, really deafening screaming and almost vomited because she was so worked up. She is a big girl, twice the size of my ds (they are 2 weeks apart in age) and really gets in your face. She gets really angry if me and her mum are talking about something which doesn't include her and will scream this awful high pitched sound until we stop talking and focus all attention on her.

This happens EVERY TIME they come over and if we go their house, even if we meet out.

The problem is, my ds just cant handle it. They came over yesterday and ds went and hid under the bed. When I went up to see what was wrong he was sobbing saying her screaming hurts his ears. They had only just walked in the door and already he was anticipating the drama. When she is having these episodes, my friend cuddles her and tries to placate her by singing but it just doesn't work. When they are at my house, her dd refuses to go home and yesterday they were here for 7 hours because every time she tried to get her shoes on she would just have an absolute meltdown. My friend believes in gentle discipline as do I, but I cant expose my ds to this any longer. yesterday was the final straw. I felt like id been battered mentally. He asks me every morning if they are coming over and has a really nervous look on his face. AIBU to talk to my friend about this and say I cant see her because of this? I would suggest we meet up just the two of us, but I know she wouldn't do this because she doesn't like leaving her dd.

[mymatemax]

the title is AIBU to tell a friend I cant see her beause of her dd... I would say that sounds like ditching a friend??

Pictish, each to their own, I am generally laid back about most things, so maybe.

[pictish]

And I did go through some difficult friendship situations to reach the conclusion I have.

I really really was the friend with the tea and sympathy and the open door. It just was not tenable.

If you would put your kids through regularly seeing a child that made them anxious and miserable because you felt sorry for their mum, then I don't think you've ever done it. I did...but not for long.

[mymatemax]

As i said in an earlier post, my older son found many of my friends children upsetting, but givent his was going to be our life, with our help he got over his anxieties.
It didnt happen ovenight & yes a 3 yr old can find a screaming distressed child upsetting but as long as the parent is able to offer reassuranc ethat they are safe & it is just noise then they do get used to it.
We dont really have the option to opt out as ds2's disabilities mean many of his peers are disabled and have a variety of behaviours and medical conditions that were distresign to ds1 whe young.
Equally ds2 found ds1's noisy, dirty NT friends running around upsetting, but he ahs had to learn to cope too.

[pictish]

In fact I've done it more than once. I've always been a beacon for lost souls, only now I am far better at handling it. No more gruesome playdates for me...ever!

[mymatemax]

:)... now a play date at a soft play centre, now that would end any friendship, I hate the places.
They stink of pee, plastic & puke

[K8Middleton]

Ok I've had a proper ponder now (although I'm still thinking the op sounds more like spoilt child then SEN but I'm clearly no expert).

I know from experience that what seems obvious to everyone else can be a huge shock to some parents. I have a friend (not a close friend, but still a friend) who has just had the nursery chat suggesting some problems. She is terribly upset, it had never even occurred to her there was something wrong.

Now, this bit I feel guilty about. I suspected some sort of SEN. This was impacting on my ds and she didn't seem to be reacting to the bad behaviour so I distanced myself a bit and tried to see her without my ds. However, I always assumed she was aware of his problems. Goodness knows I had told her about my ds's issues and I had tried to give her opportunities to talk about her ds if she wanted to... but I just assumed that she didn't want to talk about it, or maybe didn't want to talk about it with me.

Now all that said, the reason I distanced myself was totally selfish on my part. I found my ds behaved worse if he played with hers and also because I couldn't bear to watch her ignoring the bad behaviour. On more than one occasion her child (and consequently mine) was in danger because of her lack of action. She never told him off or gave him boundaries. I couldn't tolerate that situation but neither did I ever come out and say it. With hindsight maybe I should have said something, but I think if I had expressly said I thought her child had issues or that her behaviour was making things worse, we would not be friends now.

[pictish]

Well again...there's having a friend with challenging kids (and I do) whom you support and love...and there's having a friend with challenging kids who inappropriately outstays their welcome by hours during visits that make your kids tremble.

[lougle]

"With hindsight maybe I should have said something, but I think if I had expressly said I thought her child had issues or that her behaviour was making things worse, we would not be friends now."

K8, I think you are right. As DD1 goes to SS, I know lots of parents who have children with SN. We seem to fall into 2 distinct 'camps'. Camp A) Your MNSN type poster. We want to know everything we can about SN, have embraced our child's SN and are running with it. Camp B) In denial, or accepting that our child has SN, but totally separate from it, too. When they are at school, the SN disappears and life resumes.

It's totally bizarre. I can't imagine being in Camp B, but many who are, can't cope with the thought of being in Camp A.

[mymatemax]

of course, children can have SN & crap parenting, SN isnt selective and I also have friends whos parenting styles I disagree with, but it is just an element of a friendship.
Maybe the OP's friendship is just too new to want to stick with it

[Sh1ney]

A distinctive high pitched scream that almost pierces your ears can be a sign of autism.

[lougle]

There are no easy answers. Or at least none without consequences, whether the OP would see the effect of them or not.

Interesting subject.

I have to go to bed - DD1 will be up at 5, regular as clockwork. Maybe when she's 10 she'll start sleeping in a bit?

[lougle]

I've never heard that, Sh1ney. DD1 has a distinctive high pitched scream. She has SN but not ASD. DD3 is NT but has a frighteningly high pitched scream.

[pictish]

SH1ny - yes, we are all politely debating around that atm I think.
There are other SN it can be symptomatic of too though.

It may also simply mean a lack of boundaries in her upbringing.

We can't know.

[mymatemax]

lougle, ds2 is 10, he's up at 6 every bloody day, so a little better. But he only ever calls Mummmyy over & over until I go to him.

[ouryve]

Having an incredibly difficult child, I was full of sympathy for your friend until the shoe incident.

At 3 ds1 was over my shoulder and out, shoes or no shoes - partly because it might not necessarily hsve been about the shoes for him in the first place, so why fanny on?

[pictish]

That's it ouryve.

[lougle]

ouryve but a lot of parenting is our influences, isn't it? I personally am of the 'over the shoulder and out' school of thought, too. However, I've met a new set friends through DD's preschool and I'm stunned to see their parenting style.

They are 'natural parenting' and they explain, explain, explain. Negotiate and bargain. I imagine that if the OP's friend is surrounded by those types, and the discipline may well work for their children if they are NT, then she won't realise that it doesn't work for children like hers, so she will persevere, thinking that if it hasn't worked so far it's just a case of consistency or a 'phase'.

[pigletmania]

Mabey meet up at weekendsborevenings when a dp/dh if she has one can look after her dd or your dh/dp could look after your ds. Meet in the park, soft playetc. One they start preschool mabey meet up then. Like couthy has said the mum might be finding it so hard and need some support.

No you do not have to subject your ds to tat so try and arrange to meetbup when someone can take te kids

[Bobyan]

Exactly ouryve,this whole thread isn't about the child (who no one can say what the problem is) its about the parent.

[pictish]

They are 'natural parenting' and they explain, explain, explain. Negotiate and bargain. I imagine that if the OP's friend is surrounded by those types, and the discipline may well work for their children if they are NT, then she won't realise that it doesn't work for children like hers, so she will persevere, thinking that if it hasn't worked so far it's just a case of consistency or a 'phase'.

Even so...even so.

[iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii]

I have had two seperate friends with DS's who had Aspergers. I knew each child from birth and I suspected early on that they had some sort of SN. They only thing I did was to never dismiss any of their mothers comments that they thought their DC were not developing 'normally' and to suggest that they get advice from their GP or HV if they had any concerns.
If they asked me directly if I thought their kids had some sort of SN I just said that I didn't know but that they should raise their concerns with a professional.

Once their DC's had a diagnosis I DID NOT say oh yes, I knew that all along. That would have been a mean thing to say but apparently a number of people said that to my friends

[Sh1ney]

Oh I am not saying that every child who can shriek to ear crushing decibels is autistic. But it is most definitely one of the signs. Autistic children can reach a pitch that you wouldn't believe was possible! However, of course, not all do this.

This child could be NT and just a complete pain. She could be autistic and also be a complete pain. Kids are kids aren't they? So, it's your call. You don't have to entertain anyone in your home that you don't want to.

If this was me and it was a good friend, I'd offer my support and have done exactly that in the past.

[apostropheuse]

OP Your number one priority in all of this has to be your son. It's totally unfair to him to feel the need to hide under the bed crying at the thought of another child coming into HIS home - a place where he should feel safe and secure. He's obviously being deeply affected by all of this is; he's in a state of alarm at the very thought of them visiting.

Your child is just as important as the other little child, regardless of whether the speculation on this threat about her having special needs is correct or not.

If you want to continue a friendship with the mother please do it without involving your son.

[pictish]

Absolutely agree.

[ouryve]

Mymatemax I wouldn't inflict 7 hours of anywhere on my boys, never mind 7 hours of them on anyone who isn't obviously up for it. It's not fair on anyone and gives me no relief from anything.