To think middle-class Guardian reading lefties, really are morally superior to their rabid Daily Mail/Telegraph reading counterparts?

[ComposHat]

Posh lefty handwringers/Champagne Socialists/The Islington mafia call them what you like, but I think they are unfairly maligned.

Because in purely self economic terms it would be more beneficial to adopt a right wing stance and advocate less taxation, cuts in stamp duty and inheritance tax, yet they take an opposing view in the interests of fairness and justice.

By contrast, Middle/upper class Tories act largely in their own interest.

Quesadilla, absolutely! Was brought up by similar somewhat sanctimonious Grauniad-reading parents myself. Definite tendency to think that the left has an automatic monopoly on caring, charity, public service provision etc. Which is absolute bollocks, imho, most people of most political persuasion value such things. It's in how they're provided that there's the difference.

Has Op come back from typing up her articleyet?

Nope not typing up any article, honest guv.

My sleep patterns are ballsed up so I've only just awoken.

The title in my thread was probably ill thought out, but it was a response to a whole bunch of lefty bashing on one of the UKIP threads, where the assumption being made was that caring about others less fortunate that you and being cncerned with anything than your own economic wellbeing was 'manby pambu' or 'pie in the sky'

Well I am quite happy to be called a 'bleeding heart lefty' if the equivalent is to only care what happens to me and mine.

I wish I'd been more measured in my approach as I seem to have started an unseemly bun fight.

"I seem to have started an unseemly bun fight."

Whoever would have thought that might happen...

Well I am quite happy to be called a 'bleeding heart lefty' if the equivalent is to only care what happens to me and mine.

^this. I've almost forgiven you for wearing Clarks shoes.

I don't just read the Guardian, I've written for it too.

But I am very taken aback by the characterisation of my distinctly crummy corner of Sarfeast Lunnon as 'leafy'- someone ought to let the winos' hostel on the corner know - or my kids' (local and state) schools as middle-class ghettos. Perhaps some of you should refresh your stereotypes a bit?

Oh and although I am now a hack I've worked extensively in the voluntary sector, and Mr Inferior is a bit of a key player in it too.

The Guardian left wing, lol.

Socialism is left wing. Communism is left wing. The Guardian is not left wing. Nor is the Labour party, in case you were wondering. They are just slightly less cravenly right wing than the Tories.

Mind you journalists are considered even lower than liberal lefties on MN...

a whole bunch of lefty bashing on one of the UKIP threads, where the assumption being made was that caring about others less fortunate that you and being cncerned with anything than your own economic wellbeing was 'mamby pambu' or 'pie in the sky

That assumption does get made. But there is also the very prevalent assumption that if you dare to vote Tory you couldn't possibly care about what happens to anyone else and you are automatically a self serving bigot.

Both assumptions are as inaccurate as each other.

Being serious for a second, Compos there are some tories on here that really do care, although they're perhaps a little misguided. I'm even friendly and on first name terms with one or two of them! However, they're not the ones that throw the daft terms around, their arguments tend to be measured and respectful.
There's even one up there!

from Yes Minister:

Hacker: Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers: the Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country; The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country; The Times is read by people who actually do run the country; the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country; the Financial Times is read by people who own the country; The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country; and The Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.
Sir Humphrey: Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?
Bernard: Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.

I think it's the somewhat ridiculous assumption in the OP that if one isn't left-leaning/Guardian-reading, one is what? .. UKIP??

Thanks for coming back OP and clarifying your view - i guess UKIP's success in the elections is getting to people!

Carol i'd forgotten that! Oh for the heady days of political satire on mainstream tv- Spitting Image as well as Yes Minister

My DM and DMIL bought the DM, loved the puzzles and small crossword.

"but it was a response to a whole bunch of lefty bashing on one of the UKIP threads, where the assumption being made was that caring about others less fortunate that you and being cncerned with anything than your own economic wellbeing was 'manby pambu' or 'pie in the sky"

Most of the lefty bashing on all the various UKIP threads was self inflicted, as they generally kicked off with the view that everyone who voted for UKIP was a racist and/or a xenophobe.

The main issue I have with lefty "caring" is the wish to care for every one and everything, but an extreme unwillingness to face up to the "where is the money going to come from" and " dealing with cheats" issues.

The main problem I have with righty "caring" is that, while they are clearer on how much money there is, it typically comes with strings attached to those with commercial power and too little redress.

IMO both ends of the spectrum are as judgemental as each other, as they both believe deeply in their own dogma and that They Are Right.

spring

I hope the daily mail crossword isn't like the rest of the paper.

Clues Across

1. German Leader, glorious saviour of the Aryan race (5.6)

1. Large bird, owned by the Queen and eaten by filthy Polish migrants (4)

etc.

The main issue with the 'Left' is a belief that people have no obligation or ability to help themselves. Why should, for example, all schools be run by the govt, why not give parents the money and let them choose the education provider of their choice - even home schooling?
The view of the left is parents cannot be trusted to do the right thing. An example was at my DS's (private) primary school, the Bursar argued that the reason packed lunches were not allowed was that parent's could not be trusted to provide sufficient correct nutrition.

"The main issue with the 'Left' is a belief that people have no obligation or ability to help themselves"

One of the main issues with the "Right" is that they say/believe things like this.

Sorry Seeker - are you saying people have no obligation to help themselves to the best of their ability?

A complicating issue is that the telegraph cryptic crossword is far superior than the Guardians. This causes us dilemmas....

You mean there's harder stuff out there than Araucaria? Sodding hell! This makes me feel even worse about being unable to get a single Araucaria clue.

No. I'm saying that I have never met a member of the "Left" who thought they didn't!

waves at Dawn

i'ts repeated on here daily - recommendations to only work 16hrs, people who voluntarily limit their hours and get benefit etc

Really seeker? I sometimes find that members of the left make excuses too easily. That's not to say that those people don't think they have to take responsibility, just that sometimes they think their responsibility doesn't need to amount to much.

"I don't hang out with a lot of Telegraph readers so maybe they are just as intransigent and bigoted about the left - I don't know"
I'm a middle class Lefty but I read the Daily Telegraph, what does that make me?

"i'ts repeated on here daily - recommendations to only work 16hrs, people who voluntarily limit their hours and get benefit etc"

People do this, obviously. Have you any examples of how it's left wingers who do it?