To think middle-class Guardian reading lefties, really are morally superior to their rabid Daily Mail/Telegraph reading counterparts?

[ComposHat]

Posh lefty handwringers/Champagne Socialists/The Islington mafia call them what you like, but I think they are unfairly maligned.

Because in purely self economic terms it would be more beneficial to adopt a right wing stance and advocate less taxation, cuts in stamp duty and inheritance tax, yet they take an opposing view in the interests of fairness and justice.

By contrast, Middle/upper class Tories act largely in their own interest.

Rubygates - of course I understand that! I didn't say my friends could pay more, just that they feel the taxation system is weighted badly and can see that it would be reasonable for them to pay a higher rate.

It might mean a cheaper skiing holiday or cutting down on the old prosecco, but they'd do it!

Well there you go - you know different people!
I only know a few Mail readers and I really dislike them. They're far more likely to come out with hateful drivel about Romanians or somesuch than anybody else I know. It's just a different sort of character.

A complicating issue is that the telegraph cryptic crossword is far superior than the Guardians. This causes us dilemmas....

No of course Guardian-reading lefties aren't morally superior. They are economically illiterate, that's all.

I don't read any papers. I am a left wing Higher rate tax payer though. I despair at what the Tories are doing to this country and after the recent local elections, worry about a Tory/UKIP coalition next general election. I'm alright under the Tories, maybe even better off but I don't like what they are doing to the most vulnerable members of society. A good society looks after the most vulnerable.

YABVU to assume that a left leaning person on the same wage as a right leaning person is automatically morally superior.

It's easy to have liberal views when they make little difference to what you actually have to do and pay out in life.

In my experience of people who I know well enough to have political type conversations with, the champagne socialist types are all talk. They spin a great yarn about how much they care for others and how they are happy for their taxes to be spent on benefits etc, but they don't pay more than anyone else and they don't actually given up much time to benefit society.

I do a lot of voluntary work, which often involves people spending their own money to be able to help, and takes a lot of time. By far, the vast majority of the people I know that actually get off their arses to make a difference to people less fortunate than themselves are Tories.

The difference is that they very much want to be able to help others less fortunate, but they want to be able to choose how they do so without it being dictated to them by the government.

The guardian reader types just seem to have a lot to say about how other people should do things.

"A good society looks after the most vulnerable."

A good society first ensures it has enough money to pay for the collective services it wishes for its members.

It's the sanctimoniousness of some (not all) Guardian readers that is the most amusing thing. I actually read the cookery and 'Life' articles in the Guardian most days, but anything by, say, Polly Toynbee makes me want to reach for a revolver.

ooh la Toynbee is unbearable - would rather read Amanda Platell any day!

Yes Polly Toynbee. She makes my my teeth itch.

"Sanctimonious" in my experience tends to mean "forces me to think about things I would rather not think about"

How sanctimonious of you, seeker.

Does it ever cross your mind that other people have already thought about the subjects you are still struggling with, and have reached their own mature, data-driven conclusions?

Yes sanctimonious could well mean 'chooses to act in a morally superior way to you'

And 'mature data-driven decision' coming from a Tory tends to mean 'decision motivated purely by financial considerations' IMO

Anyone who reads Amanda Platell without feeling murderous is a bit strange in my book

It is a good thing to take financial considerations into account before spending. It is the lefties who spend the future generations' income (not even inheritance) with wild abandon...

This thread can never be anything but a slightly silly bunfight. Etween two sets of diametrically opposed people

Nice typing, fanjo

lol oh I do feel murderous at Platell, who wouldn't, even the smug look on her vile chops - still Toynbee does make me want to stab someone too - I am all for equality you know!!

As far as I can work out:
MC Left Wing Guardian readers will attack anyone who doesn't agree with their viewpoint by saying that they must be less intelligent . (But as they are looked after by the all-powerful State that's OK)

Lib Dem Centrists (Also often Grauniad subscribers) will claim that anyone who doesn't agree with them is less compassionate than they are.

Both will move towards blanket insults and ad-hominem attacks when their viewpoint is threatened.

Educated right-wingers are much more fun to bait debate with, they will generally stick to civilized debate methods, quote "factoids" and references and remain civil and scathing. Even when being quite clearly wrong

People who read and believe everything the Daily Fail tells them are no fun to debate with at all. It's like shooting fish in a barrell.

What about WC left wingers, while you are stereotyping people?

Hmmm, I'm not sure. I've never really had any on-line debate with WC left-wingers. I know seral right-wing WC people...

Does anyone know? I can only speak from my own experience.

I thought I'd managed to stereotype everyone.

"It is much easier to have a 'touchy feely' view on the less fortunate members of society if you are sufficiently isolated from them"

And read a newspaper that says how marvellous and caring you are as you sip your latte after sending Miranda Nd Tristram off to the marvellous school in your leafy suburb.

Anyway..I am none of the stereotypes so will feel free to continue being a leftie without fear of judgement

DH and I are high-rate-taxpaying Guardian readers who work in the financial services industry. We are not economically illiterate but cannot agree with Tory policies as they are wrong.