Should I give any more thought to DD's friend's mum?

[AgentZigzag]

We've known the mum and her DD for about 10 years and I was friends with the mum for about 4/5 years (I think) before I made a deliberate decision to back the fuck off at speed distance myself from her. But now DD is 12 YO and they don't live that far away (and lives near to someone else DD sees often) she been going round on her own for a few months.

The reason I'm posting is that DD stopped over there a couple of weeks ago and said the mum had walked around in just her bra/pants for about half hour before getting dressed (not related to the bra/pants/hanging washing out thread ). DD stopped again last night along with another couple of lasses and she thought the other girls being there would mean the mum wouldn't walk about like that in front of them, but she did.

That's the bare bones, and I'm totally open to the fact there's absolutely nothing wrong with the scenario because -
-it's completely her right to dress/not dress how she pleases in her own home
-DD feeling uncomfortable could be down to her being 12, we've got no hang ups with our bodies and have been relaxed but respectful of privacy etc and have encouraged the same with DD

However, saying that, there are things, some to do with why I backed off from the mum, which I'm trying to decide whether they're significant to this or not -
-A minor thing, but basic politeness and making guests feel comfortable may sometimes involve getting dressed in a conventional sense, and in front of your 12 YO DDs friend might be one of those times, the mum does seem to have had a blurred boundaries issue with other things
-She did some things that made me in the past, like when DD stopped over at 7 YO (her friend 6 YO) the mum left them on their own in the house (which I was furious about tbh), and another incident at about the same time when all three of them ended up with no clothes on, she asked me to babysit the first time I met her and her DD 2/3 YO, talks inappropriately about her DDs dad in front of her DD/my DD, amongst other things
-If this was DDs friends dad walking about in just his shreddies I would be wondering about him possibly getting a kick from it (although I'm not suggesting this of the mum)

Knowing what I do of her, the most rational answer I can think of is that she's trying to prove a point that there's nothing wrong with peoples bodies. It's something she keeps saying to DD and trying to make DD do things she's not comfortable with, thankfully DD is able to speak up and say no.

Today DD went to get something from a cupboard when the mum was only in bra/pants, and even though there was a lot of room for her to move back, she only gave DD a tiny bit of space to squeeze past, and this does make me feel a bit uneasy, as it did DD (although a horrified cringe would be a more accurate word for DD ).

Someone else I know gets something from knowing what makes other people squirm and then doing it repeatedly 'because they can'. A bit of a power thing? Point scoring? Game Playing? I'm not sure, but it's fucking horrible and I don't like people who enjoy doing it.

Does that sound plausible?

Sorry I've gone on, but it's been bouncing around in my head for a couple of weeks and I'm not sure whether I should encourage DD to stay away or just leave them be. I like her friend and she knows us well so I'm loathe to get involved, but I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I read it wrong and missed warning signs which might be obvious afterwards if anything more creepy were to happen.

This woman sounds very strange, would not be letting my dd to be going around to this house.

As with a lot of people Stealth, my mum doesn't see or acknowledge that behaviour she sees as unacceptable in others is exactly the same as hers. Like she agreed DDs friend might feel uncomfortable about how her mum is in front of her friends, but did things deliberately herself to embarrass or humiliate me in front of my friends when I was younger.

So it is possible for her to be similar at the same time as not liking it in others. They're both very outspoken, pride themselves on calling a spade a spade, but go off at the deep end if anyone says anything back. I can only imagine the sparks if the woman asked mum why DD hadn't been round and mum told her the truth

You can never tell everlong, but I've talked about mental health problems with her in the past and she's never mentioned she thinks she has anything like that, she might not recognise it of course. She's trained in a difficult job, although I wouldn't like her to come anywhere near me doing it.

I don't know why but 'This is all very strange ' made me laugh, short and to the point. I would sum it up as disturbing.

It could all be completely innocent. I once shared a room with someone who appeared to have no social boundaries.

She kept the door open when she went to the toilet and had a shower and positively seemed to relish in walking around the room naked or with underwear on and encouraging me to get involved in her dressing preparation.

We were acquaintances rather than friends, and she was definitely not gay. It seemed rather as if she was incredibly proud of her body and wanted the opportunity to show it off to anyone and everyone on all occasions.

However even if that is what this woman is like, I still would not be keen for my child to spend time with her, particularly if your DD has already said that she makes her feel uncomfortable and your mother has also commenting on it.

It's a real shame that you can't have this girl round, I feel that would give you a much better compass to see if the friendship with the girl is helpful and also means your DD can see her without the mother being involved.

However if you can't then I would encourage your DD to find other friends and also lay the law down and say you don't want her to have sleepovers there. It's ok to do that with a 12 year old, particularly one who doesn't really want to go anyway.

Agree with theoriginal: it doesn't matter if it's completely innocent, your dd has a right not to be made to feel uncomfortable by inappropriate behaviour

ah I see AZZ, so it's not that your mum overtly agrees, just that what she says and what she does don't match

Stealth - more that she does genuinely agree what I'm saying is inappropriate behaviour on the mums part, but she doesn't see that she's behaved in the same way in the past and is a fine one to talk.

I do trust her to protect DD, she might have boundary problems in relation to some things, but that doesn't mean she'd incapable or lax in her care of DD.

As I don't have much to do with her DD wouldn't be going round if I had any qualms in that area. DD2 is 3 YO and she goes round, I'd never let her go anywhere where I was worried for her safety.

And just going on what I think I know of her as a person theoriginal, I wouldn't say it's because she wants everyone to admire her body.

If that were the case I'd expect more than just the jeans/t-shirt combo/hair scraped back/no jewelry?

She sounds a daft old mare to be honest.

Who wants to see someone prancing around in her bra and pants.

Thing is in the next year or two your dd and her mates will have lads in the scene so hopefully this silly moo will put some clothes in in front if them or she will really make herself and her dd a figure of fun.

The bucket thing is beyond vile.

Only you can sense if its more sinister. Go with your gut reactions but to me dh just sounds an immature prat.

I think she is grooming your DD

God ryanboy do you really think that?

I agree that what she's done could be perceived as grooming, but because grooming is necessarily a friendly/trust inducing persona and they play on the fact it mostly comes across as plausible/innocent at face value, it'd be impossible to tell on just these things alone.

Because I know what she's like, the teaching DD a lesson by exposing her to what she doesn't like would be the most plausible explanation, but I wouldn't discount anything else. There are some depraved individuals out there who look normal, live normal lives keeping up conventions, who justify their deviance to themselves very effectively.

I've been thinking about this whilst I was at the gym agentzigzag and it would be really good if you were able to let the girls come to your house.

I think from what you have posted that it would be better if your DD wasn't to go to her friends house any more, but a bit unfair of both of them if the friendship has to end because they have nowhere to meet up.

Your daughters twelve - it's clear she doesn't want to go there, but perhaps she is telling you because that's what she wants. You've said you have met the friend and you like her so possibly it wouldn't be as hard for you as a stranger or someone you don't like.

As to why this woman does this - impossible to tell really. I don't get naturists at all, but they seem to think it's a reasonable way to live so maybe some people just like wandering around naked. Who can tell. Or it may be something more sinister, you simply don't know.

Easiest thing to do is to give them somewhere else to go. Maybe hard for you, but I would hope easier than living with the concern about something happening to your DD.