Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To lie to the church about our godparents?

368 replies

bumblebeesue · 03/05/2013 15:25

We're having our child christened, mostly at the insistence of our parents, but also because it's a nice day and (I suspect) it means more to DH than he is letting on.

I got the paperwork to fill in today and 'godparents' have to be christened with at least one being confirmed.

Even though I'm not sure what I believe, choosing godparents is still important to me as people who will be there for our children should anything happen to us... But out of our two best couple friends (one being my sibling and his wife, and the other being best friends of ours for 20 years) only one is christened. (and confirmed)

I don't want to have to choose other people just because they are christened. I want to choose the very best people for my child in the future. (plus I know that they all really want to do it and would be amazing.)

So AIBU to just tick 'christened' even though they aren't? And what are the chances of being caught out?

OP posts:
Whatalotofpiffle · 03/05/2013 18:48

I wish I had lied when I was asked! I accidentally told the vicar that my sister wasn't and he said she couldn't do it

However....

My sister is amazing and went and got christened at 26!!!!

LookingThroughTheFog · 03/05/2013 18:48

She's really not though. She's allowing her child to have a 'joining ceremony' that matters a great deal to a number of important people in the child's life. She has no moral objection to it. She sees it as words in a big building and nothing more. (Sorry for talking about you OP).

JugglingFromHereToThere · 03/05/2013 18:50

Yeh, that's very harsh from you NorthernLurker - I usually love your posts which are often full of wisdom and compassion. I guess you take a hard line on what you view as hypocrisy though ? Personally I'm more flexible ... especially when it comes to a bit of form filling.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 03/05/2013 18:50

I'm godparent to 3 children and I would describe myself as agnostic/verging on atheist. I wasn't christened. My friend who had her DD baptised in the catholic church ticked the box to say I'd been christened. It was most important to her that I was in her child's life as a significant person. As far as I know there's been no comeback to that.

NorthernLurker · 03/05/2013 18:51

Yes I don't feel too flexible when I think somebody is mocking my faith and involving others. Funny that Hmm

Wishiwasanheiress · 03/05/2013 18:52

If everyone is happy with lying can u just not forge a document to back up ur lies if asked for one? Not much of a further leap is it?

Nothing so far u have said gets us past the lying in a house of god (I'd be just as miffed if another religion too btw).

Wishiwasanheiress · 03/05/2013 18:53

Agree with northern

AvonCallingBarksdale · 03/05/2013 18:53

And calling the OP a hypocrite, whose actions are despicable is one of the reasons I can't get to grips with the supposed compassionate nature of the church Smile

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 03/05/2013 18:53

Yes YWBU to lie. Its hypocritical. I am not religious, but not lying seems to me to be a basic christian value. You are choosing these people to be Godparents. Their role is to be your childs spiritual mentors. If you want them to be guardians in your absence, do as others have said and make a will. Otherwise, dont make a mockery of a ceremony that people take seriously.

QuintessentialOHara · 03/05/2013 18:54

Wonder if there are any nice Muslim parties and ceremonies you could go ahead with for fun?

specialsubject · 03/05/2013 18:55

my concern is; do you think that the godparents will take on your kids if something happens to you? That's not the role. The role is to ensure your kids get a Christian upbringing.

do you want that? Are the godparents going to do it?

JugglingFromHereToThere · 03/05/2013 18:55

I just wouldn't see it that way Northern, and am slightly surprised if you do (knowing you a bit from other posts) But you have different beliefs to me which probably accounts for things.
I get more and more flexible as I get older, apart from when it comes to touching my toes Smile

LookingThroughTheFog · 03/05/2013 18:55

NorthernLurker, wouldn't it upset you more if the child was denied the faith because of one member of their family not wanting it?

I'd have been properly gutted if my Atheist husband had refused point blank to let my children be baptised. Fortunately, we'd discussed before hand and knew what was going to happen. My priest was also happy to have him join in the ceremony as a parent and not wait outside the door. He comes to church with us each Sunday and joins in the parts he feels comfortable with. He'll attend his son's Holy Communion later this year.

He feels included and accepted, and I'm pleased about that. It fits well with my conscience. I've never for a second thought that he was a hypocrite or was mocking my faith.

Wishiwasanheiress · 03/05/2013 18:56

If its a bureaucratic answer ur looking for why post here? Post in spiritual. They would genuinely know im sure of the admin specifics. Posting in aibu suggests discussion....?

Wishiwasanheiress · 03/05/2013 19:00

Looking, the point in ur story was it was discussed and in the open that dh was athiest. He wasn't a GP u were trying to pass off... I've no problem with op not being Christian. Just at a christening the GPs should be, unless agreed by the vicar surely?

conkercon · 03/05/2013 19:03

In answer to your OP.

So AIBU to just tick 'christened' even though they aren't? Yes you are being unreasonable to lie.

And what are the chances of being caught out? You probably wont get caught out unless the vicar is strict on paperwork.

But just because it is unlikely you will get caught does make it okay to lie.

Personally rather than lie I would speak to the vicar and explain your feelings.

When my husband and I got married in the catholic church we were living together. We (well my husband) decided to tell the truth and the priest was absolutely lovely about it and married us regardless. I am so glad we did not lie.

You have said that you are going to do it anyway so perhaps you should have just asked the And what are the chances of being caught out rather than asking if you are being unreasonable.

ghislaine · 03/05/2013 19:10

Look OP, you, your husband and your friends clearly have no idea what godparenting involves (although it's been explained here a number of times). You don't really want your child baptised. You want a 'nice day' under the misconception that it will somehow bond you to your bessie couple mates for life.

What you really should have entitled your post is "what are my chances of getting away with a lie?". No-one here knows that. The rules are very clear. But flexibility in applying them will depend on the individual priest/vicar/minister and you will only find out if the game is worth the candle once you start playing. Have you been to baptism classes yet? What do you know of this church's approach? What are the clergy like?

FWIW, when my son was christened, the godparents were asked for proof of their own baptism as were we. Does that help? Thought not.

ConferencePear · 03/05/2013 19:10

QuintessentialOhara asked about Islam. I don't know about their joining the faith ceremony, but they have the same ten commandments that Christians and Jews do.

ghislaine · 03/05/2013 19:10

Oops, cross-posted.

NorthernLurker · 03/05/2013 19:13

I've no issue with people being open about their faith or lack of it. I wouldn't turn a parent away from bringing their child to the church I attend because that parent doesn't believe. I just don't expect people to lie about their belief. With regard to 'denying' a child - faith is a life long journey. The parent's choices are in every sense about them at this point rather than the child. Infant baptism is about promises parents make and intentions they have. It doesn't (in my belief) change the child. It's the knowing confession of an older child or adult that Jesus Christ is their Saviour that is the change.

1944girl · 03/05/2013 19:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LookingThroughTheFog · 03/05/2013 19:15

I suppose the way I look at it is this; the choice might be between a) a baptised and confirmed person, who's parents didn't believe at all, but did what was necessary for school purposes, and who doesn't live a particularly moral life or believe in God or b) someone who has not been baptised or confirmed in the CofE, but lives a moral life, feels a vague kind of spirituality but doesn't follow a given religion and who tries, where possible, to help people.

Personally, I don't think it's mocking anything to choose person B, and I think it's a bit of nonsense bureaucracy for the church to insist on person A when, in order to baptise a child and in effect make that bond between baby and God, you just need to say the words.

But, like all religious debates, there's really no way that all of us will agree, because each of us acts according to what we believe to be right in our hearts.

CSIJanner · 03/05/2013 19:16

Right - a quick google sorted this one out.

CofE - all Godparents have to be christened. One has to be confirmed

Catholic - one must be catholic. All must be christened.

Methodist - all must be of practising faith

Just ask the vicar/priest to see if the christening can go ahead. He/she might be okay about it. Personally, I wouldn't be.

LookingThroughTheFog · 03/05/2013 19:20

Also, thanks for your reply, Northern. I agree that the lie is the issue, but I sort of feel the various people have been pushed into it from inflexibility.

The other point you make, that faith is a journey, is also interesting. There's no guarantee godparents will stay within a certain faith. One of my children's has switched from Catholic to atheist, and another of them has switched to evangelical Christian.

But arguably, this is setting an example for my children anyway. Faith doesn't stay static, and you have to be able to test it.

cathers · 03/05/2013 19:21

I find it upsetting and insulting op that you are considering lying.

Godparents are there to guide your child in the christain faith, to answer questions about the christain faith and support them in their understanding. Obviously, to do this, the godparent is required to be a christain and hence baptised.

It is coming across that you are not taking the role seriously if considering a non baptised godparent, let alone lying about it! Shock
We were asked to provide proof of godparents baptism, quite rightly too.

Why not appoint you 'best friend' as your DC's special guardian but not a godparent.