to finally be able to say there has been too much immigration

[moogy1a]

Now that UKIP have made massive gains in local elections,conservatives stating that major changes need to be made and labour admit that they made a big mistake in having an almost open door policy can I finally say this in public without the hysterical accusations of being racist?

TalkinPeace, I also think your comments are racist. Muslim British citizens are as much part of British life and culture as anybody else. It is now the case that we live in a multicultural society of which Muslim culture is part. I do not see why it is in the least bit unacceptable for mothers to stay at home and it seems entirely rational that parents should communicate with young children in the language the parents are most fluent in.

The issue of immigration is not one of multiculturalism. Britain already is multicultural. The issue of immigration is one of numbers of people and if we have the roads, hospitals, schools and houses to accommodate a larger population, plus issues of low population and jobs in some areas are very high population and jobs in others. It is also an issue of a gap between education of the British population and the job market in the UK. What the appropriate level of immigration is depends on how well we are able to deal with those issues. It has nothing to do with Muslims who are already part of the fabric of UK life and who have made a huge cultural contribution which makes the UK the place it is today, regardless of whether or not they are individually in paid employment or have caring responsibilities.

I agree that Brits in Spain should learn Spanish - not the best representation of our country.

Immigration and the influx of EU citizens has changed our UK urban cultural landscape in the last 10 years or so and it has happened far too fast for many people. This is the problem and it's not right to call people racists just because they are finding it difficult to adjust.

Freya - Gap between education and population? Sure for surgeons but really for all jobs??!

nailak I know. Hence the laughter!

I think people underestimate how hard it is to integrate into a new society, especially where there are language issues. Even with the best will in the world, it is not always easy. It can take years to learn the language as an adult, and yet people assume immigrants just aren't bothering to learn, rather than understanding that maybe it's just taking them a while.

I don't blame the communities for not wanting to mix more having read some comments on here and knowing the general climate of opinion in the UK just now

Newgirl - you may be on to something but I find your worldview very narrow. Not everyone's life revolves around coffee mornings at school and fundraising and little chats at the school gates. Imagine thus if you can, it's not everyone's cup of tea. They may have different support systems in place and not rely on exchanges of a few stock phrases to make their day. Open your mind. School life seen the way you do may just not appeal. Or, god forbid, they may even be working mums and not have time for it.

You're describing prejudice fanjo

I'm sorry but I can't take anyone seriously who says positive discrimination. That's such a Fox News inanity.

Mirry2 - but it IS a racist attitude. Speed of adjustment has nothing to do with it. If you don't see you fellow human being as your equal because of race you are racist. What term would you prefer?

Surely this thread is being sponsored by the UKIP? To be able to say (at last) that xenophobia and racism is now a main stream item, to practice, because we can do it on MN.

newgirl -- do you know if they speak English, these mums?

My French is very poor and I admit I don't mix as much as I'd like at the playground and school -- I just can't communicate enough. I am trying to improve but it's very slow going.

Maybe they are just uncomfortable rather than unfriendly.

I think there is a definitely a gap in that many jobs are being filled by immigrants because there aren't enough educational opportunities for young people.

The example given on here was dentistry. There are apparently not enough British born dentists, so the NHS is recruiting from elsewhere. A reason given for this is that some British born dentists go into private work not the NHS.

This seems absurd reasoning to me. It is the case that some dentists will leave the country, some will work in the NHS and some will go private. That is hardly an unknown the Government could be unaware of. As a country, we should be educating young people properly for all three potential routes. There are far more young people with the correct qualifications and work experience than the numbers of dentistry places available at university. Obviously, we need to train more dentists.

Or are we just going to make other countries train dentists for us and leave lots of our young people without career choices?

I am sure this applies to many jobs. To argue otherwise it essentially saying that immigration is good for other nationalities, but the British should be denied educational opportunities so they are unable to migrate themselves or compete in a global job market.

Brits in Spain who don't learn Spanish are just 'not the best representation of our country'. Oh, the loveable rogues. Of course it should be a million times easier for a foreigner to learn the language here and bloody integrate or else they're just not making the effort and shouldn't be here at all. A bit of hypocrisy going on.

But they are not working mums. I see people happy to take and not give back. Is 4 years not long enough to learn basic language?

People happy to take and not give back come in all races and colours. Have you looked around at your own family and friends? Or are they all worthy?

Aftermay you are spouting rubbish and must have a serious chip on your shoulder if you believe that speed of adjustment equals not seeing your fellow human being as your equal.

fwiw I'd spent this morning in the home of a family of Romanians, with an interpreter ( as I don't speak their dialect of Roma...oddly.) The two adult males work. This family has no claim on state benefits. The males pay taxes. And this is a random example of the 'hated/feared' Romanians. Two male workers, three females and two children under 5.

UKIP's nightmare - because they are decent people who are not British but are living here.

but what do you mean by mixing? and how do you know because a mother at school doesnt talk to you they arent mixing? i mean there are plenty of mothers at school i dont talk to, do you reckon they all think i am not mixing? I don't normally stop to chat at school gates coz i am in a rush to pick up my other kids.

It is the assumptions. you dont know what they do in their own time, in their own homes. We have members in the maternity services liason committee who dont speak much english, yet here they are working to shape services and making things better for the community. my sis in law dont speak much english yet she was working as a childminder for her non muslim non asian next door neighbour,

I thought it was interesting, in one of the reports I linked earlier, that immigrants arriving today are likely to have more years of schooling than their British-born counterparts.

And yes, the more education and training the better, even for entry-level work.

Boring aftermay - the thread is about the rise of ukip. I don't agree with them. I think any immigrant anywhere should try and integrate. End of. Our city school has families from 30 countries - most make loads of effort. Some make zero.

Interesting about dentistry - I think it's a trend - I wonder if Brits are favouring arts etc

Mirry2 - you still didn't say what you'd prefer to be called then. I suggested racist to be just the right term.

Nailak - we are in same playground every day - they don't mix with anyone in the school. They look isolated to me sadly not as you describe.

Bit of a hijack, but surely Nigel Farage must have had immigrants in his background somewhere with a name like that?

Our country is made up of immigrants from other countries, which is what makes it great imo.

Trouble is, so many people want the country to be the same as it was when they were children, and as far as I know it's never been like that; the country is constantly evolving and always will.

newgirl -- yes, it can take more than four years to learn enough language to 'mix' easily with strangers.

I have been in France for two years. My French is still pretty bad, I am not very good at languages generally and I don't have a ton of time to work on it. It is not too bad in a classroom setting, but in real life where people speak very quickly and expect you to answer immediately, not after 5 minutes of working it out -- well, it is tough.

And I'm just learning French! Which is very close to English. I can't imagine how much harder it would be if it were urdu or polish.