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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to expect a Midwife not to ignore a request for an epidural?

162 replies

OldRichandGrateful · 02/05/2013 22:38

I have had an exciting day being a birth partner with my (a lot younger) DSis. Her husband is away in the forces and I was back up support. DSis had a beautiful daughter. Smile

She had a tough time and this wasn't helped by the total lack of any help from the Midwife. My Dsis was in great pain and struggling to keep calm and focused. She kept asking for an epidural and the Midwife kept fobbing her off. The Midwife didn't stay in the room for very long and just kept disappearing.

I had my DS a few years ago and my Midwife was brilliant.

AIBU to think my DSis should get an epidural if she asked for one and to expect her Midwife to support and help her?

OP posts:
ChunkyPickle · 03/05/2013 09:16

I don't see the difference - pain from other injuries/conditions is functional (Dr. it hurts when I do this, Dr: Don't do that) - yet pain relief is prioritised.

Pain from labour goes away once the baby is here (well, most of it, most of the time), pain from gallstones goes away once the gallstones are removed - again I don't actually see a difference - you don't get told you can't take paracetamol because your hangover will be gone in a couple of hours so you don't need it, or that you can't have codeine because we're taking your tooth out tomorrow anyhow so it'll all be fine then! Why should you be unable to get an epidural because at some point in the next few days you'll have a baby and the pain will be gone?

I had my baby in a public healthcare system (in Canada), where when I asked for an epidural there was a 24hr on call anaesthetist - and if he was busy in theatre they would call another. The pain is no less real or traumatic than any other pain, and needs to be treated as such.

5madthings · 03/05/2013 09:17

No its not acceptable at all, its not acceptable that midwives are stretched to breaking point and that patients suffer because of this. Ditto with nurses.

Doesnt look like the current gov gives a shit tho and as they are gradually privatising the nhs by the back door soon we will pay as well....

Most staff in the nhs are good, very good and its not their fault the resources arent there.

JakeBullet · 03/05/2013 09:23

Pain relief should always be given if asked for. I have cared for women who wanted an epidural right from the off, for women who didn't want one but had one because their labour became complicated and women who laboured rapidly and didn't want or need any pain relief at all. The key issue is that if pain relief is requested then it should not be withheld.

I can thankfully count on one hand the number of times when an epidural was requested by a Mum and an anaesthetist was not available but I have not been working as a midwife for five years now so it may well be worse. Usually there were several anaesthetists around and a Mum had to be really unlucky to find them ALL busy throughout her labour.

It might well be worse now though.

MoominsYonisAreScary · 03/05/2013 09:29

I ended up with two anaesthetists in with me after my spinal stopped working during my last csection.

They should keep you informed as to why you are unable to have one though.

Curioustiger · 03/05/2013 10:41

I just want to say for the record that I have had two children delivered safely courtesy of the NHS, and while I accept it's not perfect,my care (including epidurals) was excellent throughout. YANBU OP in that you should get an epidural if you want one or a decent explanation... But I truly believe that the silent majority of women in the UK are happy with their birthing experience, and naturally this is not well represented on an Internet forum where extreme experiences are discussed more frequently. I'm not saying we shouldn't complain or point to improvements, but I am just trying to balance the debate (and say thanks to the lovely lovely midwives of my corner of London).

Rosduk · 03/05/2013 11:01

Chunky pickle- I can see a difference. I agree with jakebullet. To me, The pain of childbirth can be used to aid the situation, not in all cases, as babies get stuck, distressed, but in a progressing labour where mum and baby are all fine. If the labour doesn't progress or baby is distressed then of course that's different.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have the choice, I 100% believe that in an ideal world everyone should get whatever pain relief they want, it just doesn't work that way- for many reasons that we probably don't know about. The op's sister may have been in labour at the same time as someone losing their baby, or someone at risk of dying- or if course they could have simply been short staffed- that happens, we don't know what is happening behind the scenes. I imagine the only way you can guarantee these things is to pay privately.

theodorakisses · 03/05/2013 11:21

Yes

Snazzynewyear · 03/05/2013 11:32

YANBU to think your sister's request should not have been ignored. If no-one was available to give the epidural they should have told her that. Too often there is a culture of telling a patient as little as possible, as if that's the best way. Mostly, it isn't.

RichManPoorMan has nailed it. If men gave birth, there would be a lot more anaesthetists available. Women are simply expected to put up with pain because it'll go away, they're being fussy, someone else has it worse, and so on.

Chunderella · 03/05/2013 11:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

blueberryupsidedown · 03/05/2013 12:33

I also think that preparation ie books, leaflets from the NHS, and ante natal should explain why situations like this can happen. I know that with DS2 I went in at 4 cm, and said straight away 'When I'm in established labour, I would prefer to have an epidural please' and about two hours later the anaesthetists came in. She told me that they'd had a very busy day with back to back emergency c sections, and apologised for being late - I didn't mind really, it was fine. But if someone is in total agony and asks for an epidural NOW, it's likely that she will have to wait. It's just a reality we have to deal with. It's a shame, and I also think that we should have access to pain relief.

thistlelicker · 03/05/2013 12:37

Perhaps sis was too late in the labour to have one? Perhaps nobody to do it? If you have concerns around labour then this needs to be taken up with supervisor of midwives !

yonithebrave · 03/05/2013 12:58

The truth is, nobody really gives a shit about women in labour, so they just leave the maternity ward and midwives to it.

When something goes wrong they're happy to sail in and save the day, but then sail on right back out again.

Not meaning to come across as bitter, but I genuinely believe it's because it's a mostly female environment- patients and staff.

EglantinePrice · 03/05/2013 13:08

YANBU.

If there is no one available to do it or any other valid reason then naturally the midwife should explain this.

This would save you wasting both of you time repeatedly asking. And stop your poor sister from having the expectation that there may be one forthcoming (if the midwife knew all along there wasn't). Or possibly accepting an alternative method of pain control.

Terrible communication and care.

EglantinePrice · 03/05/2013 13:12

I agree 5madthings its not their fault the resources arent there

but it is her fault if she didn't explain properly (or at all) why there was no epidural.

I fear that 'lack of resources' is becoming an excuse for 'we don't have to bother'

LaGuardia · 03/05/2013 13:18

I think it is a worry that people view epidurals as a quick solution to pain relief. It is a MASSIVE deal, and one not to be entered into lightly. It is a shunt in your spine, which can have serious side effects and can go very wrong. The midwives can administer all kinds of other pain relief - there is no need to suffer if an anaethetist isnt available. And, yes, I do speak as someone who has given birth twice.

Chunderella · 03/05/2013 13:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maddening · 03/05/2013 13:56

It could be lack of midwives as much as lack of anaesthetists - they have to be more attentive if you have an epidural.

KCOZ · 03/05/2013 14:12

I understand that lack of resources can pose difficulties, but I think it is terrible if a women who wants an epi is unable to get one. My own experience at UCH was that I got one about 8 hrs after my first request. So significantly longer wait than I would have liked, but happy to have got it in the end. Interestingly the anaesthetist, who was lovely, came to visit me the next night to see how I was and when I said I was great but would have liked to have met him a bit earlier the previous night, his response was that he didn't understand why the midwives waited so long to call him as he would be happy to give them a lot earlier. I think I am still a little in love with him....

YummyCalpol · 03/05/2013 14:14

I was refused an epidural with my first child, and had a very traumatic birth, with an awful midwife. As a result I had PTSD. During my second pregnancy I saw the consultant and made it clear that if I was refused an epidural the second time and it resulted in any further mental health problems I would sue the NHS. When I went into hospital to have dc2 the epidural equipment was all set up ready for me, and I was given my epidural within 45 minutes of arriving. Funny, that.....

Berts · 03/05/2013 14:32

Um, can I just flag up that the NHS is not free - we pay for it through an insurance scheme, called National Insurance.

We keep being persuaded that we should accept shitty service, because we're lucky to get 'free' healthcare, but it's not free!

People in other countries paying 10% of their salary towards a health and social care insurance scheme would expect much more than we do.

And if I don't get a guarantee of an epidural, I'm not having a second baby. Maybe you didn't need one, but your labour was not my labour. I was in so much pain I couldn't hear or see and my epidural was the best thing that ever happened to me!

VisualiseAHorse · 03/05/2013 14:38

Trying not to be rude, but can't really see any other way of saying....Surely if you were her birth partner you really should have been pushing for one for your sister too? Were you making her wants heard as well, were you fighting her corner??

That's partly what a birth partner is for, to help the woman in labour when she is finding it hard to make herself heard.

Curioustiger · 03/05/2013 14:39

Thank you chunderella that's a good distinction and I will remember it for the future. I'm sorry to hear you had such a negative experience, that does sound awful.

VisualiseAHorse · 03/05/2013 14:48

Also - ask your sister in a few days whether she's still really annoyed about it.

Some people will hold onto 'grudges' for years, others will just go 'eh, that's what happened!'. If she's not bothered about it, there's no need to make a fuss.

Chunderella · 03/05/2013 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VisualiseAHorse · 03/05/2013 14:50

The pain of childbirth can be used to aid the situation

Yes, it CAN be, but if you are in a huge amount of pain it can be very hard to see past it, and all the calming techniques etc count for nothing.

If you ask for pain relief you should get it. If you are denied it, it should be fully explained why.