AIBU to expect a Midwife not to ignore a request for an epidural?

[OldRichandGrateful]

I have had an exciting day being a birth partner with my (a lot younger) DSis. Her husband is away in the forces and I was back up support. DSis had a beautiful daughter.

She had a tough time and this wasn't helped by the total lack of any help from the Midwife. My Dsis was in great pain and struggling to keep calm and focused. She kept asking for an epidural and the Midwife kept fobbing her off. The Midwife didn't stay in the room for very long and just kept disappearing.

I had my DS a few years ago and my Midwife was brilliant.

AIBU to think my DSis should get an epidural if she asked for one and to expect her Midwife to support and help her?

It only takes one emcs to take staff away from others and i have been at both ends. With DD i had no pain relief until she got stuck at 10cms. I had to wait over an hour at pushing stage for a spinal for forceps. Horrendous.
I then had 14 people in the theatre through a crash section including 2 anesthetists and 6 neonatal staff- the rest from delivery suite. I had 4 midwives prepping me with catheters, undressing me, calming me down (i was on my own!) as it was 12 minutes from when I entered the hospital for reduced movement to the moment they pulled him out. DS lived for an hour but the midwives that day were amazing. The 3 days afterwards they were a HUGE support to me and I pretty much sat and watched them rushing about trying to keep up with everything, they really don't get enough credit!
Childbirth pain I would say is down the list but don't forget despite the fact it is horrendous, it does end, there is a reason for that pain and 99% of the time you have a bub to cuddle at the end of it.
Enjoy your DN! Congrats!

I agree that communication is the key. I was told that noone was available for pain relief rather than be fobbed off which is fair enough but if I kept being told they were coming, thought I'd get it then didn't- that's really not fair!

pitmountainpony the us has one of the highest rates of infant mortality in the developed world, and the death rate of mothers in labour is also worse than most industrialised nations, so not sure why you'd hear so many horror stories about the uk.

Link here:
m.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul/17/internationalaidanddevelopment.usa

And here
m.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul/17/internationalaidanddevelopment.usa

I have had a similar experience. A face presenting POP delivery and a midwife who mostly spoke to me from round the door peeping around...and ignored all pleas. If I pushed for more support she sounded exasperated with me 'because I wasn't in labour'. I'd stayed at home for 5 hours of this non labour. I delivered 8 hours later ...still not in labour apparently.

I refused to go to hospital for the next and was intending to have the birth without a midwife present because quite frankly it harmed more than helped. Since I'd managed a difficult birth with just someone sneering at me from the open doorway I thought I'd do better on my own.

I was given a one to one midwife to have a home birth. Not my demand, but their offer to stop me going alone.

I do feel sorry for overworked staff, but they need to communicate to women and communicate the problem. The patients understanding where the real fault lies, need to then complain and then something might get done.

My DD is 21. Has nothing changed in 21years?

There's a MN guide to women's rights while in labour.

Your sister had the right to have appropriate pain relief, she had/ has the right to an explanation as to why she didn't get one. It's not the midwife's choice to give an epidural.

I get really really pissed off with the childbirth is natural and therefore you must suffer the pain without complaint, because you get a baby at the end of it.

Gallstones are as natural. Your body makes them. It struggles to expel them. We don't refuse pain relief to patients for what is also a normal process.

Being given a baby at the end is not a trade for pain. It's not a payment (that just the woman pays). If its that natural, why do women die, why do babies die and why do you have midwives and obstetricians, anaesthetists etc. Accepting that women should suffer without complaint with the excuse it is normal is not fair. (Have your natural birth IF that's what YOU want). Lets learn from pain relief from other areas in the hospital? I've had several ops and never experienced as much pain yet pain management has been a major priority and offered to me proactively.

My thoughts are with ladies on this thread who have suffered loss and trauma.

As an ex midwife I know there are many reasons why an epidural might not be given when requested. However, I also know that these reasons should be explained to the mother at the time. As a midwife there was nothing worse than not being able to get an epidural for a Mum when she asked for one. I always kept parents informed though and usually at some point or other we got one arranged if there was still time.

YANBU. How does your DSis feel about things now? It would be worth her asking why she didn't get an epidural, there might have been good reasons for it but sounds like they were not explained. Even "we just don't have enough staff to monitor the situation safely" is a good reason. It sounds like the MW was caring for more than one woman in labour. Not good or right.

I agree with cabbage.

pitmountainpony, that is absolutely NOT the case at all. During my midwifery career I helped almost 1000 women bring their babies not the world. Some had epidurals and some didn't, I would never have withheld an epidural from any woman who wanted one. I never had a mother die during childbirth and the only time a baby died was due to a massive bleed which occurred before the Mum came in. Midwives and midwifery care are generally very very safe here .....if there are enough of them to provide care in a One Mother, One Midwife way.

I think you have read too much rhetoric from the obstetricians and medical insurance companies over there all trying to protect their corner.

I've never had an epidural (or even asked for one) but I have had midwives who have appeared to be more interested in their coffee and doughnut than the needs of the patients. (I've also had midwives who are fabulous). The key is definitely information, both before you go into labour and throughout. If there is a reason why an epidural is not an option then that needs to be explained, but equally your DSis should have been informed during her pregnancy that this may be the case.

Pain in labour is functional and can encourage favourable movement too. It can be used to guide a Mum I to different positions quite naturally which benefit the labour process. However, that is not to say that a woman MUST experience pain if she does not want to. We are all different and I have seen women going through a long labour experience such relief when an epidural is given, it is brilliant as long as people are aware that it might slow things down, make pushing more difficult etc. The more mobile epidurals are much much better.

If I hadn't had an epidural with ds I would have had an elective c-section for my next child. It's a disgrace that women are fobbed off. You can bet your arse that if men had babies there wouldn't be a shortage of anaesthetists.

I have never lived anywhere in the world apart from the UK that accepts so blindly such shit and neglectful treatment, free or private.

Pain in labour is functional....bloody hell, thank Christ for private medical insurance and elective cs. Bloody barmy bloody people.

cabbage leaves- I assume you haven't lost a child. In MY experience having a live baby at the end of my pregnancy would have helped me recover from my c section. It would have helped my uterus back without pain, lessen the sore boobs with milk that had nowhere to go.

Be pissed off for your experience but pain from injury, gallstones etc will not end unless treated. If a woman or baby in labour in the uk was at risk of dying THAT is the whole point of this thread- that is where the resources go therefore women who arn't at risk don't receive the pain relief. the fact you had less pain from ops, again, the point- you are higher priority as the pain will not go otherwise.

I had a traumatic birth for my first, and yet now, 2 years later after the forceps pain, infections and hormone replacement therapy I can cuddle my daughter and it's all worth it. To me, that's the trade.

No one said people should suffer without complaint. Most midwives would do everything they can to help. You can push for anything you like, if the resources arn't there they can't magic them up.

yanbu.

it's disgusting. i requested an epi several times during three births and got one too late for first birth but was denied epi's for the others.

even though it said in big letters in my notes

GIVE EPIDURAL IF ASKED.

fuckers.

second time was because they didn't believe i was so far along.

third time was because there was only 1 anaesthetist for the entire very busy, big ward and she was busy. no shit sherlock.

if the nhs had unlimited resources we should have a ratio of 3:1 patients per anaesthetist!

Right, but the resources aren't there because it's not considered as necessary as other procedures. Because women arejust expected to get on with it. This is the equivelent of saying that there aren't enough resources to provide anesthesia to men having a vasectomy, unless they have complications. No one would ever stand for that.

Maybe if we valued childbirth and women a bit more, we would find the resources to allow women to have a positive experience of birth and to makr their own choice.

For what it's worth, having had a forceps delivery without an epidural, I still wouldn't have an epidural in future as the recovery looks harder. However, if you want one, you absolutely should have one. The 'reward' doesn't change if you have one or not. If all goes well (and sadly it sometimes doesn't) we all get the samething at the end. My baby isn't any 'better' than my friends little boy just because I went through agony and she had an epidural.

I think you need to go in fighting to be honest. I had a 50 hour labour (at one point I asked a midwife to stop saying I wasn't in active labour as frankly contractions every fifteen minutes were hard work) and around 9pm on night two I asked for pethadine. MW was reluctant as she's have to examine me again and there was an increased risk of infection. I said that if she was that concerned then perhaps she should see if my induction could be brought forward.

I then refused to let them induce me until they'd confirmed an anaesthetist was available. Lots went wrong during my labour and it was pretty horrific but the best thing I did was a hypnobirthing course with a midwife. It helped me stay calm and make my requests clearly.

None of it was the MWs fault, their hands were largely tied.

Midwife was probably looking after 2 women in labour plus a few postnatals, post major surgery, drips, drugs snd feeding problems.

The anaesthetist could well have been in theatre, intensive care or A&E resus.

There was probably only 3 epidural pumps working and all in use.

That's not fobbing off. That's standard labour ward stuff.

If you don't agree with it complain officially, not just a passing whinge on the internet. Talk to PALs, maternity commissioners, midwifery supervisors. It's the only way to change the system.

On the other hand you could just count your blessings you aren't giving birth in a country where one in seven women die in childbirth. Where you are more likely to die having a baby than you are to finish secondary school and where 1 in 5 children die before they are 3.

Sorry. I've been awake for a Very Long Time.

It's not all shit really.

theodorakisses, I can guarantee I know MUCH more about the mechanics of labour than YOU do and I am far from a "barmy bloody" person. I was always VERY pro pain relief and PRO epidurals if wanted (which you would have realised if you had troubled yourself to read my previous posts on this thread).

I was simply pointing out that pain can be used BY THE MUM to guide her into the most appropriate positions for birth. I HAVE SEEN WOMEN DO THIS and make labour easier for themselves as a result. I am not and have never been anti pain relief so piss off with your judgement of me .

I have helped nearly 1000 women birth their babies so believe me I have FAR more insight than YOU! And yes I would say nearly 40% of those women CHOSE an epidural which I quite willingly and happily arranged for them. Still think I am "bloody barmy"?

Just because some other woman, somewhere in the world, has it more shit than you, doesn't mean your experience is any less valid. That's like saying my husband only cheated on me, other husbands beat their wives. It's ALL unacceptable.

Here you go folks. The reason why movement in labour can help you. Just ONE article from among thousands out there.

This dies NOT mean you should not have an epidural if you want one but be aware that as it restricts movement it might slow things down...and it might not. Everyone is different but the research shows that women who have freedom to move around tend to have a quicker and less complicated labour. This does not mean that everyone will and does not take account of the newer and more mobile epidurals which have been brilliant when I have seen them used.

OP, your sister needs to ask why she did not get her requested epidural, she should have done unless there were good reasons not to give it.