Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

[Hullygully]

Any data (either way) anywhere?

Yes Hully, it is illogical. It only exists as a hangover from the past when children were lucky to get an education and conformity was an essential part of any group.

That's why it is illogical now because (mainstream) teaching and learning has become so much more than putting children through the sausage factory, it is about encouraging them to be the best they can be as individuals.

Uniform is illogical because does not represent the ethos of modern school life. And there's no research to back up any benefits to uniform.

OK advantages of uniform
1 prevents distinction between rich and poor children on dress.
2 Identification of which school they go to which is actually a very important safety consideration when they go on a trip with children of different schools
3 Teaches children conformity (everybody has to learn to conform in some ways)some rules )
4 Promotes a sense of group identity
5 It looks so much smarter when you see children 'en masse'
6 Probably most importantly gives teenagers a safe thing to rebel against

I do NOT agree with secondary uniforms being polo shirts and sweatshirts which have very strong connotations of crap jobs

"I don't really express my individuality through clothing; that's what my personality is for."

chrome100 that's a fantastic sentence, you've got it in one!

So which of us here had a school uniform? I did.

Do we still have opinions, personality, individuality?

I like school uniform for entirely pragmatic reasons. (I don't believe it raises academic performance, which seems an entirely nonsensical performance - I mean, why would it? Improving the quality of the teaching is the main thing that raises academic performance.)

I like it a) because it saves me having an argument every day on the lines of "No, I haven't washed your black leggings," "No, you can't go out looking like that," "Yes, that top does work with those shoes" etc.

b) because it allows me to identify children from other schools in the shops and make sweeping judgement on the lines of "It's those dreadful children from St Swithin's Academy again."

'"I don't really express my individuality through clothing; that's what my personality is for."

^ This exactly^

there's no research to back up any benefits to uniform.

There's no research to back up any detrimental effects either.

What is it with you keeping quoting me soupdragon? If you disagree just state your case.

How do all the countries without uniform manage ryanboy?

Are they always losing all the children on school trips?

And plenty of people have said you can always tell the poor kids no matter what.

The school trips thing is funny. Our school used to have no uniform and now has navy and grey. Younger children used to wear sleeveless hi-vis jackets (very light thin material, fluorescent yellow, unmissable) on school trips and several TAs and teachers have commented to me that it was much easier to keep track of them like that.

so ryanboy due to my dd's secondary school picking sweat tops and polo shirts for uniform that will define her job choice?

What evidence is there to back up this statement?
I do NOT agree with secondary uniforms being polo shirts and sweatshirts which have very strong connotations of crap jobs

What is it with you keeping quoting me soupdragon? If you disagree just state your case.

Did someone put you in charge of how people use the boards?

I was responding directly to something you said. Quoting avoids confusion.

How about you tell off all the other people who quote other posters?

1. I've quoted other people too
2. You've quoted people

So I fail to see your point really.

and 3. Other people have quoted you.

there is research that shows a detrimental effect to uniform in junior and infant school - the cost of the uniform meaning that children from lower income families are put of applying and therefore the more expensive the uniform the less lower income families will go to the school. I see that as a detrimental effect of having a uniform - as if all the children wore there own clothing then the school would not be able to exclude low income children.

at all these primary school children expressing their individuality through clothes. I bet they express their individuality by not lining up with the others, and being called Aelred too.

Oh, and I bet they aren't hidebound by tradition by saying please, thank you and excuse me either.

from Finland (where most European authorities come to learn about good education), and we never had uniforms. Never will, either. Top in European results in many things.

I fondly remember having a (hip hop fashiony) keychain so long that it would get caught on the chairs and I would drag them along every time I got up. Still did very well at school.

Never remember there being an issue about anyone's clothes being deemed inappropriate. Some of the uniformy things worn here (short skirts without stockings) would have maybe be seen as slightly raunchy in a sea of jeans and jumpers in Finland.

Re the individuality thing:

I don't get why "individuality" has become pejorative when applied to schools. Being who you are has nothing to do with ability to learn or good manners.

Mostly we encourage children to respect others "individuality" be they skinny, fat, ginger-haired, gay, black, white, hetero-normative etc etc

Why on earth does being who you are (ie an "individual") equate to bad behaviour, or another fave MN word "entitlement."

One of the things Britain is most admired for is the tolerance of individuality and eccentricity, it is the reason for the success of our creative industries.

Why on earth is it important that in places of learning and exploring and discovering and trying (and exam factory-ness) that everyone looks the same?

It's just weird.

And why, when every argument in favour of uniform, is disproved, does it change to: "Well, I think there are more important things to worry about in schools"

ILLOGICAL

Somebody save me from the soupdragon!

Some of the uniformy things worn here (short skirts without stockings) would have maybe be seen as slightly raunchy in a sea of jeans and jumpers in Finland.

And every school I see in the UK that doesn't have uniforms they also end up in jeans and jumpers.

seeker

They are the kind of child who whacks others over the head with toys at toddlers and the parent watches dotingly and comments on how expressive they are.

By all means object to uniform on the grounds of cost, or poor quality, or hideousness, but all this guff about it stifling children's personalities is a load of pretentious bollocks.

UNIFORM is a discipline aid. Not educational