Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

[Hullygully]

Any data (either way) anywhere?

[MTSCostcoChickenFan]

Pointy - But Hully is not posting a legitimate question.

Some schools have a uniform policy because it has a serious discipline problem so getting pupils to accept a set of rules is the first step.

Some schools don't want to have the same conversation a thousand times about what is appropriate school wear. Anyone who has seen 12 year girls in their town centre on a Saturday afternoon dressed like a 18 yr old on the pull knows what I mean.

Some schools don't want the poor kids to be subject to peer pressure about clothes and shoes and trainers.

Others just like their kids to look smart.

Basically, Hully is asking people to defend something that no (sensible) person is asserting.

[ToysRLuv]

Not sure how school success is measured, but surely some things are pretty universal, like maths, physics, chemistry, reading, writing, foreign languages? Scales are not that hard to convert.

[ToysRLuv]

Ok, here's an interesting question: should children wear their uniforms all the time even outside the school to completely prevent peer pressure and bullying? Or never go out in their spare time? Unless they live deep in the countryside, they will probably meet other children from their school even outside its gates. And their choice of trainers will be noted!

[Hullygully]

and dear lord the Finns drink a lot in the long long long dark winters

[pointythings]

Costco I disagree - it is a legitimate question. There is a huge rip-off uniform industry fleecing parents of their money based on this nebulous concept that uniform is somehow better. I for one would like to see some research into whether that is true. I realise it would be tricky to run proper randomised controlled trials into this, but I don't think shrugging our shoulders and saying we should just put up with it is good enough.

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

Erebus - the data I used up thread for ranking European schools came from this organisation:

www.oecd.org/pisa/

The information I used was an amalgam of 3 different rankings relating to:

• literacy
  
• mathematics
  
• science

[ToysRLuv]

Not too far ahead of the Brits or Irish, mind! < gets beer can from fridge to drink away and waste geniousness >

[wonderingagain]

The last things the Finns need are black and grey uniforms on their children. It would tip them over the edge.

[wonderingagain]

Ooops is that racist?

[Hullygully]

Slight tangent, but is it true that if a Finn asks you to dance and you agree, that the third dance you agree to means you want to marry them?

[Hullygully]

Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

HOW for the love of all things Finnish, can that not be a "legitimate question"?

[ToysRLuv]

Interestingly they love black and grey. Safe colours to hide in and think deep thoughts or pretend to do so

[pointythings]

Toys I am loving the idea of mandatory Goth-ness .

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

Unless the school insists on a particular supplier of school uniform (which I believe they arent supposed to do) there will always be fashion within the school uniform whether it is wearing the skirt as short as possible or wearing the skinniest or flappiest trousers.

Cheap school uniform made out of cheap fabrics never looks smart for longer than a couple of weeks. It all develops that 'slept in' look once teenagers have got hold of it.

If you want 'smart' school uniform then it needs to be better made and so more expensive which disposes of the equalising effect.

The rest of Europe manages to allow students to wear what they want to school and given that they seem to be out performing us arent wasting too much teaching time on it.

[ToysRLuv]

: Sort of . We certainly NEVER say "I love you". That is a perversely strong thing to say. Tears your guts open. The fact that we have danced with you three THREE times, is plenty strong evidence enough of there being live involved. Finnish men in particular don't speak and, especially not, dance, but if they do, it really MEANS something.

It's genuinely a bit weird and sad that I can't say to my son that I love him, because it's so weirdly strong in Finnish. Luckily I can show him that I do! Also Brit DH can be all soppy for Ds.

[ToysRLuv]

That was for Hully. Bloody Kindle messed up the beginning, again!

[MTSCostcoChickenFan]

Pointy - DS jacket cost £45 from school shop (it's badged). Grey trousers and blue shirt from Matalan.

DD's jacket is £80 new. It's better quality than DSs so we buy it from the second hand shop at the shop. Blouse and skirt are non standard but still reasonable at £20 and £35. Once again quality 2nd hand available.

I don't doubt that there are schools out there that have extortionately priced uniforms but it isn't as widespread as you think.

[wonderingagain]

You need to be strong Toys and throw off your cultural shackles. Embrace the colour!

[ToysRLuv]

Also "love involved" not "live involved". The kindle is SHIT! believe me, I'm literate...I'm a freaking Finn FFS

[ToysRLuv]

I pretty much do now, wondering! That is if I'm not having a fat day or something. also cheating by actually being half Greek

[pointythings]

Costco you give me your school - I give you - Trutex. Would they be such a big business if the big school rip-off wasn't widespread? At DD's middle school they charged £9 for a single 65% polyester crappy polo shirt. And they are everywhere.

And frankly, if even one school gets away with price gouging, that's too much.

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

MTS - a week's worth of school uniform is going to cost over £200 (3 shirts & skirts & 1 blazer).

Perhaps it seems like good value to you but for a lot of households that is a lot of money to find all in one go in September especially when you have to add uniform shoes and uniform sports kit. On top of that you have to multiply it by the number of children.

Without a school uniform jeans & t shirts will be rolled over from August to September, from weekend to week day.

[wonderingagain]

Oh goody a conspiracy theory. So Big Business is in league with the government to maintain their dominance of the hugely profitable uniforms market. That will get all the mc mums boycotting uniforms and their talk of 'sense of belonging' will shift to 'liberate the kids from their corporate ties'.

[Blu]

How on earth can Hully's question not be legitimate? It's one I would like to know the answer to, too.

And in pursuit of the whole question that Hully is NOT asking , I believe I am a sensible person, in fact I am renowned for being sensible, and I would happily see school uniform got rid of.

At my highly academic girls school we wore uniforms until O levels and then could wear our own clothes in sixth form. I did much better in my A levels, wearing a selection of cheesecloth smocks than I did wearing a duck egg Viyella blouse and pleated skirt.

[MTSCostcoChickenFan]

DD has one skirt and two blouses and a blazer. The skirt and blouses are worn next to the skin so we bought new. Blazer was second hand. Girls don't kill their jackets like boys so 2nd hand was like new. Did the lot for £100.

For us, uniforms is the cheaper option, at least as far as DD is concerned. If DD's weekend wear was extended to school days .....

Gap skinny jeans, Converse shoes , Hollister T Shirt, Jack Wills hoody. Can't be seen wearing the same stuff twice in a week.

The above would definitely cost me more than £100

If you was on a limited income how would you like your DD to be in Matalan clothes while her classmates were dressed as above? And please don't tell me that your DD wouldnt care.

Primary school were simpler days. There our uniform was grey trousers, blue sweatshirt and white polo shirt. All generic items available at Matalan, Tesco and friends.

I accept that some schools have uniforms that are a rip off but looking around at my state and private schools that isn't as wide spread as people think.

Like threads about GS a great debate is being had that affect very few people.