Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

[Hullygully]

Any data (either way) anywhere?

In your opinion, Alibaba

Which doesn't appear to have any facts or evidence to substantiate it.

"Why on earth does being who you are (ie an "individual") equate to bad behaviour, or another fave MN word "entitlement."

It doesn't. Or it shoulcn't. Individuality is wonderful.But never yet met a parent who talks about school uniform dehumanising, or stifling individuality who didn't also think their child has a perfect right to ride their scooter head down at full tilt down a crowded pavement.

I have met loads.

And lots of others are on this thread.

I think it dangerous to extrapolate from a few you have met and build an argument upon it.

well uniform is meant to stop children comparing clothes; which they would naturally do. (Especially girls)

diverting a little. Fortunes must have been made out of uniforms in recent years

I've worked in 4 schools, all with sixth forms. Only one of those schools had no dress code at all for the sixth form, all had uniform for younger yeargroups so I can't comment on the effectiveness there.

The one school with no dress code did have some issues caused by inappropriate dress, mainly with the girls. Some girls did come to school in very short skirts/shorts, or very low cut tops. It distracted me, and I'm not a hormonal teenage boy. I don't think the high achievers were affected, they were focused anyway and always seemed to be wearing jeans and t shirts. The students who did seem to be affected by the clothing choices they/others were wearing were the ones who were quite easily distracted already. I'm not convinced they were all doing appropriate courses and I imagine that they would have found other things to be distracted by if they had a dress code.

I spent more time on discipline in the sixth form with no dress code than I ever did in any of the 3 schools with dress codes. That probably says more about the leadership and ethos of the school as a whole than it does about sixth form dress codes though.

So after that long post, I'm still rather undecided on whether I think uniform/dress codes are good or bad. I probably wouldn't introduce it in a school/sixth form that is already working well, but in a school where teachers are finding that students are becoming distracted by a minority wearing inappropriate clothing then you would have to introduce a dress code in order to be able to pull up the ones wearing the inappropriate clothes.

Yes, dress code of course. Appropriate clothing is just that: appropriate. Like no topless men in pubs

But there is a world of difference between a dress code governing appropriate dress and shoehorning everyone into trainee estate agent polyester.

Almost all kids will go out of their way to wear their uniform as badly as possible. If a uniform is worn properly it looks smart and attractive, but it almost never is worn properly and it ends up like a dog's dinner of rolled up skirts, black trainers masquerading as proper shoes, stupid, fat, loose ties that are barely tied at all, hair on boys is always to short or too long, while hair on girls can be any length, but then they'll battle over hair colour instead, or make-up, etc, etc.

What's the point? It's just one more unnecessary thing to battle with teenagers over to try to maintain some kind of control/authority over them - and to what end? What do they lean from it that is over any use?

If you let them wear what they wanted and didn't bat an eyelid it would almost immediately remove one form of rebellion at their disposal, which can only be a good thing.

Removing a school uniform that is worn properly requirement would remove one focus for teenage rebellion and leave the field open for the young person to push the boundaries elsewhere.

Another reason to keep it.

Who are these weird boundary-pushing kids?

The teenagers I know are nice normal young adults who respond eagerly to being consulted and respected in the same way we expect it from them. You get a lot further with negotiation than authoritarianism.

The whole "teen rebellion" thing is a hangover from the fifties when adults were adults and kids didn't count and were to be repressed and squashed until they reached 18 when they could repress and squash their own children.

Who on earth wants ot live like that?

I think Hully, that we should agree to differ. Most teenagers I know now and knew when I was one myself were boundary pushing. You don't apparently. But I suspect that its a question of perspective rather than an absolute.

The funny thing is, its almost like you are still trying to push the boundaries with this whole thread! (no offence BTW)

What boundaries am I trying to push?

I am discussing ideas, why do you see that as boundary-pushing?

I think a lot of people parrot received ideas eg

Uniform = good
conformity = necessary
teenagers= dangerous and rebellious etc

without really thinking about the ideas, about whether they really think them, or why they do. And nor do they want to, it's much easier not to question and to call those that do "boundary pushers"

And a heads-up:

If you feel the need to write "no offense"

You can guarantee there will be.

I know that Hully... my husband starts sentences "With respect.." or worse "with the greatest respect" and he doesn't have to say another word because I already know he is trying to annoy me.

But in this case, i really didn't want to upset you.

Why do I think you are boundary pushing? Because you are clearly not happy with the status quo and because you keep dismissing reasonable explanations from those who don't agree with you. If I said that people who have had their 80th birthday are generally considered old, but it didn't suit your point of view, then you'd say that none of the 81 year olds you've ever met have even remotely passed their middle years!

Just marking my place as I'm interested in this too, so thanks OP.

Hullygully

I am discussing ideas, why do you see that as boundary-pushing?

I don't think you're "discussing ideas". From the outset your posts seemed to be "I think this, who agrees with me? Great. Let's talk about why we're right."

How odd you see it that way.

There are pages and pages of people saying why they think uniforms are a good thing, but every reason given is disproved.

There is noevidence to support the benefits of uniform in any year, let alone 6th form. That is simply factual not a pov.

And if you doubt me, go back and read all the research data posted.

lisson - I don't think they are reasonable explanations. That is why I don't agree with them. All of the reasons given are fallacious, and provably so.

And no worries I'm not upset.

Someone brushed on this above.

Obviously if the child is allowed to wear whatever they wish, there is the chance of clashes with parents over their dress.

IIRC Bjork once turned up to high school in her quilt with a head hole cut in it.

But more importantly it actually means the child will be able to concentrate on more important things (such as schoolwork) instead of what to wear.

Such decisions, and potential ridicule, make large parts of some kids lives.

Take the problem away, by enforcing a dress code. If polyester clothing is such a problem, the school could be requested to change to a higher standard of clothing.

Especially if hte school could be encouraged to set up a 'shop' and attract a bulk buy discount, esp if staffed by volunteers and merged with a thrift shop style 'pre-loved' school uniform emporium.

Anyone who thinks that wearing school uniform prevents the distinction between rich and poor is deluded.

DRESS CODE

As an American, I do not like school uniform, even the "uniform-light" version that is often adopted when a school district in the US decides to adopt a uniform (which according to Mr. Google, is around 18-20 percent at present).

It is more like a very restricted dress code rather than a uniform: solid colored trousers, shorts, or skirts, usually a choice between khaki and dark blue (unembellished jeans often allowed); solid color polo shirts in white, blue, or another color designated by each school (small brand logos sometimes allowed); liberal policy on shoes.

DS attended a school for two years with a dress code like this; except for the days when he wore jeans, he looked like a wee golfer headed to the links. The problem I have with it is that it is so relentlessly preppie middle class American (and I like golf, by the way).

Schools should foster individuality, respect for all cultures, and independent thinking. Clothing is a cultural choice (even a political one) and I think schools should allow those choices within reason.