Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

[Hullygully]

Any data (either way) anywhere?

Having had experience of DCs going to non-uniform school I can report that there were no problems in getting them dressed for school. I fail to understand why there should be a problem. Countries such as the Netherlands are not full of children who have failed to dress for school.

Students learn complex mathematical concepts in a few weeks. Why does it take 11 years of school to learn to wear a uniform for work (assuming that their work requires a uniform, most dont)?

Successful uniforms are generally suitable workwear (think military uniforms, many warehouse type uniforms, medical uniforms). Lots and lots of time and effort goes into making these uniforms the most appropriate clothing for the job.

What ghastly occupation is the polyester blazer the most appropriate clothing for? Nobody other than a yacht club commodore wears a blazer of any fabric for work.

There are no good arguments for school uniform which stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

Or perhaps they can do as they are told.

Why?

Nobody other than a yacht club commodore wears a blazer of any fabric for work.

My daughter looks like an awkward waitress.

I haven't read all 11 pages but the Germans, Americans and Swiss do not have school uniform.

wonderingagain - this is the problem, what is the point in your DD dressing like a waitress unless she is a waitress (though proper waitress uniforms tend to be more practical!)

I know worry it's horrible. Black polyester with shoulderpads on a beautiful frecklyfaced 11 year old angel.

eh it's not entirely true re: American schools. They didn't have them when I went to school there, but from reports from friends back there, many schools have moved to a dress code system which is essentially a uniform. Khaki trousers or skirts, and polo shirts of specific colours. For example. (These reports will differ by state and by county, so make of it what you will. More school districts seem to be experimenting with it, anyway)

I went to Catholic school in the US until my second year of high school, and the cost was ridiculous. 50 USD per skirt, for example, because the schools would all have contracts with just one uniform company, and you were required to own precisely the same plaid, pleats done the exact specified way. It was madness, and very expensive. (50 USD in the late 80s/ early 90s btw- who knows how much it costs now!)

I've just purchased most of DS's first lot of uniforms for his reception year in Sept, and it was about a tenner. The school runs regular secondhand sales, and it definitely seems the way forward for certain bits (fleece bobbles, but the trousers and skirts looked practically new. Same with polo shirts and PE tshirts). I think shoes will be out biggest outgoing, if the rumours are correct that they need outdoor shoes, indoor shoes, AND PE shoes. Looking forward to that.

I did both uniforms and no uniforms in my school career. Uniforms gave us something to 'rebel' against (seem to recall everyone trying to get away with wearing t-shirts under dress shirts, or leggings under skirts). No uniforms meant I had to have a massive wardrobe. As a student, I think I preferred uniforms. All the stuff about pride in school though, I don't get that at all. :) I think at the end of the day, I liked the uniform because I didn't have to worry over what I was wearing or was it trendy enough.

This is what's happening in America (Brooklyn NYC) - look under 'School Life' and it seems that quite a lot of schools are opting for specific items of clothes to be worn, or a uniform.

schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/1EF8D314-4E63-432B-9EF3-234231870BB0/134104/201213HSDBrooklyn.pdf

Totally what worried says.

They are vile. My kids look so much better in 'normal clothes'.

Here in Queensland, the uniforms, particularly the private schools, are so old fashioned. The girls wear drop waisted frocks often in plaid and hats. Boys, even in grade 12 (so about 17) wear shorts with long socks.

My son goes to a state high school in Brisbane which just might be the only one without a school uniform. They have a dress code though. Kids look like young adults and are treated thus. Some parents I know think that the kids will not do so well because they are wearing their own clothes...Well this school has a Nobel prize laureate who comes back to the school to talk to the children. And often tops the state in the OPs. (Similar to A levels here). Also innovative in that they have a Spanish Immersion programme from grades 8-10. DS17 is now fluent in Spanish. There is a school polo shirt which is worn for sport or on open days but with jeans. The children look like children; shorts and tee shirts or jeans and jumpers. Which is a sort of uniform anyway.

DD goes to a private school (for a variety of reasons) and her uniform is based on a nun's habit. Navy drop waisted dress with a LARGE white removable collar and a white hat. She hates it . But her school also performs well.

I think no correlation at all.

None of our local schools have uniforms, in fact it's seen as a very weird and old fashioned 'British' thing to do (we live in Canada). Children here seem to have as much or as little pride in their schools as I remember from the UK, and in general Canadian schools perform very well. The dress code is very limited, no strappy tops, no gang colours and no swear words.

The only conversation I've had with my children about their clothes for school was to tell ds that he needed a new hoody/trousers when his were getting worn out, and we have yet to have any conversation with a teacher about clothes.

Kids here generally wear jeans and t-shirts/hoodies to school. Sure sometimes there are issues about bullying, but at least you get picked on for wearing clothes you've chosen to wear rather than those forced on you. I certainly felt picked on when I was at school in a uniform as the teachers were always going on about me looking scruffy. I thought that was a bit rich considering I was scruffy because the uniform fitted me very badly (and was fully polyester and really ugly) whereas they looked scruffy because they chose to (no dress code for them of course, just for us grunts, which rather put paid to the getting ready for work gumpf).

I went to primary schools which did not have uniforms.
The sheer bliss of starting at secondary school, having a uniform and not having to worry about getting it wrong any more. OK, so as it turned out there were still little details that could be got wrong, but I never stood out as as being weirdly dressed. It was very important for me at the time not to stand out more than was unavoidable, I don't really care now I'm an adult, but then I was being bullied for everything so it was lovely not to be bullied about my clothes any more.

There are no good arguments for school uniform which stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

There are no good arguments either way that stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

So dressing hundreds of children up to wear the same close is enhancing their individuality? If ever there's a silly claim, that's one of them.

I don't think anyone claimed it enhanced their individuality. Saying that uniform doesn't stifle individuality is not the same thing.

I'd love to get up every morning and put on a grey skirt, a polo shirt and a logo jumper for work every day. I hate choosing what to wear to work and can't be arsed. Sometimes I miss that aspect of school.

I don't really express my individuality through clothing; that's what my personality is for.

"I think students should orchestrate uniform strikes. Seriously what would they do if they all turned up in their home clothes and refused to wear uniform? I feel a streak of rebellion coming on."

And this would enhance their education exactly how?

Sorry OP the thread has turned into a general argument about uniform v non-uniform, however as I have said before on these threads the arguments against non- uniform never seem to be from parents with children at a non-uniform school.
The arguments about what it's like on mufti days, well that's because it's not the norm, or talking about it been like a fashion show- no they just wear the normal clothes they wear during the day on weekends or holidays. If anything because they don't have limited times to show off what they look like when not in uniform they are more relaxed about their image.
My son will probably put on jeans/shorts, t-shirt, hoodie and hi-tops this morning, his mates will be similarly attired and none of them will bat an eyelid. OK if you have new trainers or an amusing (but none offensive) t-shirt you might get some comments but that's it. In fact we have had times when my son has not wanted to wear his new trainers to school because he doesn't want people to think he is spoilt for having another new pair! Also his t-shirts are a mix of more expensive brand ones and £2.50 Primark plain ones, both get worn equally as often.

The secondary school my DC attend has a strict uniform policy, maroon blazers, shirt and tie, grey trousers (boys) /grey uniform style skirt (girls)

The sixth formers switch to a black and grey uniform, (the girls still have a uniform skirt), which looks v smart.

Given that the policy is strictly enforced & that the sixth are looked up to particularly by the younger students, and the 6th formers have positions of responsibility within the school, I feel it is appropriate that they wear a uniform. To turn up each day in jeans would just look odd, and sort of disrespectful to the rest of the school community.
(Sorry that's quite clumsy wording, but I'm struggling to find the correct words)

However, I appreciate that in a school with a more relaxed uniform eg, polo shirt, jumper and everyone in trousers, then it wouldn't look so out of place to have the 6th formers in their own clothes.

Also, in fairness, the teachers always look smart too!

Oh and to contribute to the original question it is an outstanding school, best results in the city and one of the highest achieving state schools at A-level in the country, lots of kids going to Oxbridge etc., and the pupils are very proud of their school.

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the lack of uniform but they manage to do this without a uniform.

Finland comes out best for education in the industrial world, but they don't use a school uniform to achieve this. Would there results be better if they made their school pupils wear a uniform?

I'm not arguing for or against uniform- I have no strong views either way, but I can see benefits to both.

I just think it's not a big deal, unless it is used, as it sometimes is, as a method of back door selection. Or where it is obviously intended to allow moths to play out their "Madeline" fantasies.

All this stuff about stifling their individuality is just nonsense. Rather highlighted by the poster who said something along the lines of "I hate uniform- why can't they all just wear jeans"

I have issues with the whole nonsensical educational system anyway.

But my main bugbear with this, as I said way way up thread, is the ILLOGICALITY.

It's all so "because I say so."

I'm another one with a deep hatred of uniform. Have no problem with a dress code, e.g. no jeans.

I remember one stunningly inane conversation with a teacher over whether a child's shoes were dark enough brown to qualify. I say 'conversation' but my contribution was mostly just faces. Ignore,ignore, ignore!

I think uniform obsession is just more 'harking back' to the good old days.

Yes, 'because I say so' is a major feature of school sadly.

I doubt you'd ever find conclusive evidence in favour of or against the wearing of uniform.

There'd always be so many other factors at work it'd be impossible to find a direct link between one and the other. You'd have to consider context above all:
-Social economic background
-Local societal expectation
-Academic attainment upon entering the school
-Ethnic mix or lack of in the school and area
-Existence of other local uniform signifiers (e.g. gang uniform)

etc etc

Our local schools all wear sweatshirt and polo uniforms, primary and secondary. 90% of parents of working parents work in professional jobs where professional uniform (shirt/tie/suit/HCP uniform etc) are the norm. We are all people who have largely toed MC societal lines and have thereby reaped the benefits, therefore I don't think any of us bat an eyelid at our DC wearing school uniform, though we're glad they're not wearing the blazers ties and boaters of some of our childhoods!

Our DCs 'express their individuality' through their personalities, not their pink hair and piercings! Not at 15, anyway.