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Original poster

To expect a mother to teach her child to stop being a little shit

278 replies

Loopyhasanotherbean · 19/04/2013 21:07

We go to a toddler group and there is one child who attends who persistently gives an evil stare to other children before running at them and pushing them over. This has resulted in tears from the other children almost every week for months on end. He is 2 and is doing this on purpose and the others are too nice and kind to retaliate, not that we would want them to really. He also snatches whatever toy he wants from any other child or baby, using whatever force necessary to get his own way. None of the other children do anything to provoke this, they are all gentle well behaved toddlers and getting very upset and not knowing what they have done wrong to mean they get hurt.

She never apologises on his behalf and he won't say sorry (he isn't at all sorry). Are we all being unreasonable to expect her to start disciplining him, taking responsibility for his behaviour and teaching him how to behave towards the other children?? We don't know what to do, but I am not sure I can bite my tongue much longer. She is as far as I know a nice woman, but she does not tell him off and he doesn't go to nursery do there is no one else to discipline him....

OP posts:
Hullygully · 19/04/2013 22:30

That is NOT normal behaviour for a two year old. Of course some grab now and then or strop or push, but they do not consistently behave liek that, and the parent should be watchful and stopping it, trying to teach the child not to do it.

It's ridiculous to say it's normal two year old behaviour.

PacificDogwood · 19/04/2013 22:31

Just out of interest: is he a younger sibling??

I've often wondered how much of my darling offspring's tendency to violence was related to them having a fierce rivalry at home

dontmeanto · 19/04/2013 22:32

Think the point here is the mum not doing anything, not that some two year olds are difficult.

LunaticFringe · 19/04/2013 22:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FacebookWanker · 19/04/2013 22:35

Poppyhat I said that DD's behaviour is nothing to do with our parenting and that I'm not complacent. I suppose I should have added a 'yet' when I said it doesn't occur to her to be naughty, just to be clearer.

Original poster
Loopyhasanotherbean · 19/04/2013 22:36

I am not friends with her, others know her better and know that she does not agree with telling him off or upsetting him. He runs wild. I am sorry so many of you think my child is abnormal, but he is well behaved, and it is through me teaching him how to behave, not down to luck. We live in a nice area and all have similar attitudes with regard to how we raise our children, there is nothing wrong with his home life and from what I know of her his mother is nice. But her child is not. I have not once seen him play with another child. The others play, share, kiss, cuddle, chase, roll around, giggle, laugh, talk, sing etc. not him. He just snatches and shoves. I just want to know how to deal with this. I haven't felt like it was my place to say something but she is still letting it happen and I don't like the atmosphere it's creating, but wasn't sure if I should tell him off or what. Sounds like a few of you think that isn't a bad thing to do though?

OP posts:
CarpeVinum · 19/04/2013 22:42

which does sound a wee bit self satisfied

I think that's a minimisation and reframing of how the OP most likely feels.

If somebody sees their kid getting pushed and treated roughly, in a setting where the genral social rule for not provoking adult tensions is "each parent takes responsibility for parenting their own child", it is perfectly normal for them to get all "frustrated mother bear" in defence of their tearful or fearful child.

There may the occasional, (somewhat warped if you ask me), mother who will happily trade her kid being persistantly upset or clumped in order to bask in her own superiority, but I bet they are rare. Far more likely, most who are getting frustrated and upset at seeing their child be persistantly hurt, wary or in tears would gladly share "OK mum" status with all around them in exchange for all the kids happily playing together unmolested, most of the time (cos I doubt many expect all and every toddler meet up to be utterly fisticuffs free).

MyDarlingClementine · 19/04/2013 22:44

I have also known a DC like this!

You have been given a really hard time op, but I can appreciate your frustration. When you are trying to teach your own DC boundaries and how we must not hurt others. another comes along and causes havoc with no boundaries.

Infact two dc I have known like this, both extremely violent. One I only saw at toddler groups, I joined late and the other mums didn't seem to react except to comfort their battered DC ( Dc used to swing chairs at their heads, stand on trampoline so could get good kick into toddlers going by, took a running jump at Dc head on the ground.....etc), so I did think perhaps there was something else going there....that they all knew but I did not...so I kept my DC away from that one DC - steering away as much as possible in as subtle a way as possible.

The other one, my goodness.....the DM just seemed so blind and oblivious, I saw that evil flash in the eye - and long thought out ways to harm, I saw a crying mother - cradling her baby - whom this DC had just kicked...and the DC Dm did nothing except get upset herself.

She dotes soo much and is sooo fussy about so many things, really anal and yet her DC has caused havoc time and time and time again, at nursery, parties, play dates...play centers!

Personally I used to watch my DC like a hawk at that age, and even if she occidentally bumped into someone or took a toy, I made her apologise, give the toy back etc. When we went through a difficult phase I just had follow through on threats and leave.

I just wouldn't want my dc making other DC as frightened as mine was sometimes when being hurt by the others.

KitchenandJumble · 19/04/2013 22:46

Oh, come on, OP. You are ascribing all kinds of malevolent intent to a 2-year-old. Truly, he cannot possibly have reached the level of emotional development to have an "evil" stare or to hurt others "on purpose." He's an impulsive child, he wants the toys others are playing with, and he hasn't developed empathy yet. No child of 2 (not even yours) can be fully empathetic. There's nothing unusual about that. It's just the way humans are.

As for other children, it's great if they are "well behaved" at the age of two. But I would say that this is to some degree down to luck and temperament. I don't think that parental response and involvement are neglible, but I also don't think they are as significant as we sometimes tell ourselves they are.

Should this boy's mother respond to her child's behaviour? Absolutely. If she doesn't, it's perfectly acceptable to step in. Do people really just sit back and say nothing if a child is hurting other children? That seems so odd to me.

Of course, shouting at him or being otherwise unkind would be useless if you really want to teach him something. But some teaching and reminding and repeating how we need to be kind to each other may be the way forward. Don't expect things to change overnight. But surely it's better to step in than to ignore his actions and then complain about him and ascribe evil motivations to a tiny child.

MyDarlingClementine · 19/04/2013 22:47

I agree Hully, I spent a good two years sat in regular toddler groups and they all had their moments, some loved to wrestle and people got hurt but it was good natured, not intentional, then the odd hurting, biting, kicking even...from nearly all of them at some time. But repeatedly every week two at different places would be on a constant mission of pain
( ours were slightly older though).

MyDarlingClementine · 19/04/2013 22:49

I don't know Jumble, I would like to think so too, but the Dc I know I knew from 3 and now at 6 there is no difference.

Original poster
Loopyhasanotherbean · 19/04/2013 22:52

He does have an evil stare. Toys are not involved when he pushes others to the ground. The children are always stood around the room not holding any toys when it happens, and he runs towards his victim and shoves them. No reason at all and he gains nothing except hurting and upsetting them.

At no point did I suggest shouting or being unkind to him. I just wanted opinions on what others felt would be an acceptable solution in this situation as I do not want my child or the others to be continually subjected to this violence.

OP posts:
6625maria · 19/04/2013 22:54

Loopyhasanotherbean I'm with you. Having had my little girl bundled and pinched until her face bled today "little shit" seems perfectly reasonable. I have far less patience than you. My opinion is that if the toddler is known to be very rough the mother should be there supervising. If the mother isn't with the toddler in my group I will personally be physically lifting this child away from my daughter if he makes another beeline and telling him that jumping on people is not what we do. If she has an issue with that we shall leave the group. My daughter is only 15 months and just starting to walk. Sod worrying about an atmosphere, there are plenty of great toddler groups to choose from. I want my daughter to be confident and happy, not fearful she will be hurt.
Have you raised this with the staff?
Good luck x

dontmeanto · 19/04/2013 22:55

Loopy, does mother ignore the child when he does it?

KitchenandJumble · 19/04/2013 22:57

I know you didn't suggesting shouting or being unkind. But your language WRT this child and your (understandable) feelings of being upset at seeing your child hurt could lead to you (or anyone) treating him unkindly. I was just saying that interacting with him in a gentle but firm way would be an option.

And once again, a two-year-old can't be evil. Really and truly. He hasn't yet fully developed empathy because he's two. He's simply too young to have reached that stage.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme · 19/04/2013 22:57

thornrose well, a bit of a generalisation yes, but kind of referring to the rest of the posters who agreed with my opinion and not yours.

Original poster
Loopyhasanotherbean · 19/04/2013 22:59

Mostly she ignores. He pushed my child, no action. He pushed another, no action. He pushed mine even harder into a wall and it was only when mine started sobbing that she went to get him.

OP posts:
NicolaSeven · 19/04/2013 22:59

Lunaticfringe , that does sound awful. I had assumed when you said the mother was crying, she would also be doing something about it Sad

But while I do understand you're frustrated with the mother's lack of interaction OP, I'm not feeling a huge amount of tolerance from your posts. Something in the we live a nice area and we all feel the same...

On a more practical note, if you are looking for advice, I would suggest stepping in at the next altercation and saying 'gently' and perhaps showing him how to negotiate. And expect to have to do the same on many occasions as children with a less malleable temperament take a lot of telling before they get it.

Original poster
Loopyhasanotherbean · 19/04/2013 23:01

It is a good group which is why we are still going. If it wasn't I'd stop going rather than try and find a solution. Like I said, the other children really are a pleasure to be with.

OP posts:
elQuintoConyo · 19/04/2013 23:02

Welcome to toddlerhood. My 16mo doesn't share, pushes, snatches toys (ok, 16mo/2yo is a big difference, but still).

Wish he had an 'evil stare' sounds great, very Lex Luther.

You may have written 'little shit' in a fit of pique, but it's really horrible Sad

Poppyhat · 19/04/2013 23:03

Facebookwanker.
My comment about smug parenting was not directed at you,I apologise if you felt it was.
There is a smugness on this thread,but its not coming from you.

Original poster
Loopyhasanotherbean · 19/04/2013 23:03

As a group we have been tolerant ever since he became mobile, this is a long term issue but I'm fed up with it and I don't want my child being hurt again.

OP posts:
Original poster
Loopyhasanotherbean · 19/04/2013 23:08

And i do not intend to sound smug, motherhood is dammed hard work, but I have taught my child how to behave and am proud of him and nothing will change that. If he sees another child cry, it upsets him and he will give them a cuddle or offer them a toy to make them happy, quite often his most prized possession, his teddy rag.

OP posts:
cjel · 19/04/2013 23:13

I don't know how many DCs you have OP but your posts sound more and more judgemental Just because you live in a good are means nothing. I wonder what prince Harry was like I remember stories of Princess Diana despairing about some of his behaviour and I bet he was 'told' what was right!! I hope you never have a problem with your dc,As for being tolerant as a group you don't sound very nice at all.I can also assure you that sometimes you can 'teach' your dcs all you like and theystill have their own personalities, they are not robots they cannot be programmed

Freddiemisagreatshag · 19/04/2013 23:14

Why the fuck have you not just told him no? Don't do that? Be gentle?

Why are you ALL bitching about her behind her back instead of just doing something?