Margaret Thatcher to get full ceremonial funeral - have they gone mad?

[rowtunda]

Its bloody disgraceful - a tory/establishment decision that insults many. We should riot in the streets on the same day.

I fear becuase she had a film made about her everyone has forgetten what she actually did - including devastating whole communities - and now we are expected to stump up for her lavish funeral?

Bloody disgrace

(oh and she definietly wasn't a feminist icon either!)

I've read 8 million pounds to pay for this.
In these days of cutbacks i'ts shocking.
I now wonder how many people will turn up to line the streets to watch.
Princess Di and The Queen Mother had millions watching on route or on the tv but they were both held with a lot of affection.
MT divided the nation, I can't believe there won't be people who turn out just to protest.

Five years ago we weren't in the grip of such an awful depression. As a country, we cannot afford to take care of our poor or our sick. Apparently we can't afford an NHS and schools are being sold to the private sector. We have scant and often inappropriate social housing, because it was sold off. State possessions were sold off leaving us with no product to cover our debt.

We simply cannot afford a lavish funeral for her. I was anti it 5 years ago when things weren't so dire, and it's worse today.

If, as I have heard often over the past 24 hours, we need to spare a thought for her mourning relatives, frankly, I think they should pay for her funeral.

If Winston Churchill had one then so should Margaret Thatcher.
Don't forget that Churchill as first Lord of the Admiralty was responsible for the Gallipoli campaign costing thousands of lives on both sides, oppossed Indian independance and Ghandi's peaceful revolt, linked Bolshevism to a Jewish conspiracy and was not a generally popular choice to replace Chamberlain at the start of WW2.
And yet he is considered to be a grand old statesman and the embodiment of British spirit...
I was born in the 70's so I don't have specific memories of the time but my parents tell me of power cuts, unburied bodies, rubbish left in the streets and food shortages.
I live in a Northern town btw, many people bought their council houses, my own house is a legacy of that, the previous occupant bought it.
My day remained for the most part unchanged yesterday, I'm no Tory or a particular fan of MT but she changed this country. Labour had their chance to reverse her policies, they failed to do so.
It's not even up for debate, the funeral will happen. The usual mouthing off will happen, rent a gobs will pop up all over the place spouting bile and being photographed drinking champagne and celebrating while a family mourns in the public eye, the issue has probably been taken out of their hands (although I believe she will have a private cremation).
And anyone who starts trouble when London will be crawling with armed soldiers is an idiot...

no government has got 50% for years they get in with 42-47% because even more people are against opposition
because of system a party can get a landslide victory of 100+ seats with less than 50% so while current government may have 54% of population against labour would have had about 67% against them at least election so on that basis they definitely do have the mandate to govern just like every other government in past 100 odd years

as at least 350 of the 600 seats in parliament have not changed party since 1950 and generally the election turns on about 100 -150 vulnerable seats getting more than 50% is impossible to achieve

more people wanted the tories in power at last election than any other party, they did not have a majority but were closer to it than anyone else

I believe the reference to the percentage of votes achieved by the Conservatives under Thatcher was in response to the people asking 'if most people hated her, how come she won elections?'.

I am struggling to see why so many people think that protesting a public event like a ceremonial funeral is the same as protesting at a private funeral.

I don't think anyone wishes to upset the bereaved family. I don't think anyone (certainly very few people) would ever dream of protesting at a private funeral, which, according to precedent, should be occurring in this case.

People do not object to Mrs Thatcher having a funeral, they object to her being honoured by the state with a ceremonial funeral. Protests would be against this honour, not the funeral. I think it is perfectly acceptable that people should be permitted to voice their objections, whether it be on the grounds of cost or because they think Thatch is an unsuitable candidate for a public ceremony of this nature.

Turning the funeral into a public event invites public comment, and a great deal of this comment will be negative, and exhuberant.

A private funeral, followed by a Memorial Service later in the year would have been the way to go IMO.
The Memorial service would allow world leaders and the Queen to pay their respects, and wouldn't cost the taxpayer 8 million quid.

What Tiggytape said. I have no feelings one way or the other about her entitlement to a state funded funeral as I'm not in the UK, but the time to protest about it was when the decision was made. Protesting at the actual funeral is not only like shutting the gate after the horse has already bolted, but it's downright disrespectful. Like her or not, she was respected by many people and she had a family, all of whom deserve to be able to mourn and pay their respects without loudmouthed fools acting like pork chops at what should be a dignified occasion. Just think how you would feel it if were your mother, or grandmother that had passed away, and you had to run the gauntlet of yobs.

People did object to it back then. It still happened, and they still object to it now. It clearly wasn't set in stone (as it is going to be a 'ceremonial' rather than a 'state' funeral ), so given that 'we're all in this together', I think it is still appropriate to show disapproval for the honour of a ceremonial funeral.

The best suggestion I saw (some time ago) was that people should go and line the streets, and turn their back as she is wheeled past - respectful disrespect at its best.

I know that it is virtually impossible to achieve more than 50 % of votes in an election. I included the comment about votes in response to the posts above which implied that the fact that she won three elections suggested most people were in favour of her being prime minister. My point is (and it applies to pretty much every government, including the present one ) that more people voted against her than in favour of her, regardless of the fact that no single other party won more votes individually.

Well, if this thread is reflective of public opinion, she was certainly a very divisive figure. I'm not against ceremonial funerals. I just think it's unwise to hold one for a person who can elicit so much bad feeling even after so many years. And eight million is a modest figure. What will it cost in terms of policing and security? I'm not sure BTW if we should respect people for the courage of their convictions. I'd rather admire someone for both.

If her family want her to have a dignified ceremony where only people who loved her are present, then it's very simple. They can pay for her to have a private funeral with private security and still invite whichever heads of state they like.

If the family agree to her having a public funeral, paid for by taxpayers and with taxpayer-funded police and armed forces security, then it becomes an issue about which the public are entitled to an opinion.

badtime, why do you feel that there is any excuse to be disrespectful? If you don't agree with it, then don't go. There is never an excuse for being disrespectful at someone's funeral.

There are many things that are passed by governments that I don't agree with. The arguments are done, both sides present their point of view, and decisions are made. Some I agree with, others I don't. I have never voted for the current ruling political party in my country, and never will. But in a democracy, you don't always get what you want. I have met the current PM, who is someone I don't agree with most of their politics and stances on most issues, but I still respected the office and the person.

A bunch of protesters disrupting important occasions will rarely get any respect for their position or for themselves.

It isn't about being disrespectful at someone's funeral, it is a protest against public money funding it. There were parties around the country last night and police officers were injured trying to break them up, if they want a re-run of the riots then they are doing everything that they need to, to ensure this happens. Do I want her paid as little respect as the dying and dead at Hillsborough? I'm not sure, tbh.

And rather than just go on the stories of the strikes that caused power cuts etc, read social policy books as to why the strikes were taking place. Ask why it has taken so long to have maternity and paternity rights in the UK and all the other possible legislation that was ignored because ?society didn't exist, just individuals?.

There is never an excuse for being disrespectful at someone's funeral

As I have said before, the issue is not with the funeral - a private event would be entirley different. A publically-funded 'ceremonial funeral' is more than a funeral. It is a public event. By having a public event where none is needed, this is inviting public participation.

You concede that it is an 'important occasion' - I assume you don't just mean for the friends and family of the deceased? So you agree that it is more than a funeral.

I will say this again - protests would not be about the funeral they would be about the cost and because people disagree with having the funeral as a public event.

The outpouring of vile comments on this post has really shocked me. Her family are grieving and we seem more concerned with venting our anger and rioting at her funeral? We may or may not have liked her views and what she stood for but show some respect people. Also are the current shower of shit we have in place doing a better job !Hmmmmm lets think about that one then.

It is not a funeral, it is a state ceremony occasioned by a funeral. No-one would object to a private funeral.

How many people are advocating riots? What is 'vile' about suggesting there are better ways to spend money than celebrating the political legacy of such a divisive figure?

I don't respect her.

I don't understand your point, tiggy

Are you under the mistaken impression that those who disliked Thatcher and her policies (of whom there are many millions) did not start to express their opposition to a state-funded ceremonial funeral until yesterday?

Or are you perhaps under the mistaken impression that the common people were allowed to have a say in it?

I think very few people are advocating riots, but quite a few of of will protest. If her family had a quiet funeral only for people who knew her personally and wanted to share their grief then of course I would not protest, but the minute her funeral becomes a vast affair, attended by foreign heads of state and funded by public money it has been politicised and I therefore feel perfectly justified in expressing my displeasure. And no, I will not show respect because in my view she didn't earn it.