To think Andrew Wakefield has blood on his hands for causing so much distrust over the MMR?

[chicaguapa]

That's it really. He's caused so much damage with his stupid little study. It was years ago, he was struck off, the study was discredited, but people still don't get the MMR because of it.

In the UK we still have frredom of choice over our own bodies and those of our children. They do not ask to see the red book or confirmation of an up-to-date vaccination schedule. They will ask on the information form that you fill up once your child is enrolled. But it has no bearing on whether you are offered a place or not.

Strangely, in our borough, vaccine take-up is less in the better educated, wealthier areas.

babyhammock the nonsense you are peddling on here is more than a little scary and I do hope that other gullible people are not following your lead.

I also hope the your dcs do not get seriously ill in later life with something that YOU as a responsible parent could have vaccinated them against. I imagine that telling doctors that you breast fed them rather than vaccinating them will not go down very well.

I also think that the way posters have spoken about GPS such as macdoodle on this thread is frankly despicable. The arrogance mixed with ignorance is depressing - especially the poster who claimed that non-vaccinating parents are basically more intelligent that those who vaccinate and they do not follow the herd as they are independent thinkers. What utter pompous piffle.

I vaccinated both of mine. But that must be because I am an uneducated sheep. Obviously.

The arrogance mixed with ignorance is depressing - especially the poster who claimed that non-vaccinating parents are basically more intelligent that those who vaccinate and they do not follow the herd as they are independent thinkers.

Agreed. I have actually been completely taken aback by the number of posters who appear to hold such dangerous, misguided views. It's quite shocking.

babyhammock, people like you really really worry me. Everybody should make their own decision based upon sound evidence but you appear to have no understanding whatsoever of the immune system. I could say a lot more but I won't.

I know it will make no difference.

if all those who choose not to vaccinate do so based on their own research...

That's what gets me; this stampede to vaccinate seen now. Why does an active outbreak make a difference? Surely they always knew they were taking a risk and had accepted that risk. Unless it was a misinformed kneejerk decision in the first place

I'm in the YABU camp wrt Wakefield's original study, though. It was a small exploratory study & I think it was perfectly valid to raise the questions even if ultimately the concerns were shown as misplaced.

The immune system is boosted by a an excellent diet of loads of fresh fruit and veg and extended breast feeding...right? That's all I've said. If you think it isn't you are very mistaken.

As for all the so called immune system experts that have appeared, the immune system is massively complex and I am only commenting on what I know.

So I chose to make my child as healthy as I could rather than vaccinate against common childhood diseases, all of which I had as a child. My choice.... Yours was to vaccinate...great....your choice.

And measles complications very much depend on the immune system of the person who gets it...

I can't believe the venom and spite on here from some in the vaccinating camp

FWIW my particular GP was very supportive

Yes, one thing having a theoretical debate and making a decision when no sign of red spots in sight. Another when your good friends daughter has been hospitalised because of an outbreak.

Hammock where do you live? Near an outbreak?

babyhammock I don't get the whole "boosting" the immune system. My immune system is overactive, it needs no boosting as it is attacking itself. Still, my hospital promotes fresh fruit and veg.

babyhammock, again. I find your "informed opinions" very very worrying.

Boosting...I mean helping it to work properly...maybe bad choice of words with boosting, but that's what I meant.
Yes most autoimmune diseases are due to part of the system working too hard or rather another part not working hard enough.. an imbalance .... a system basically not working properly.

Look I'm bowing out ....really didn't want to get into this bun fight.

and yes I've been in an outbreak and no I didn't keep DS locked up

Complications are more likely to affect children under 5 aswell as those with a weakened immune system and poor diet. Apart from eye, ear, gastro & throat infections measles causes meningitis, pneumonia, hepatitis, encephalitis, thrombocytopenia, croup and squint. More rarely, blindness, SSPS a fatal brain condition, heart problems and nervous system problems.

babyhammock Your knowledge of the immune system is very misguided.

"people will use that priority to come to flawed decisions and then boast about them"

Please inform me about the "flaw" in my decision re the best interests of my children:

Is it that I am not vaccinating DS for rubella, ever?

Is it that I am not vaccinating DD until she is tested for immunity in her teens?

Is it my conviction that it is best if DD has rubella by then, so she will be immune for life?

"Reducing the burden of ruebella in the population is in your child's interests actually."

I have nothing against helping out the "population" but not when it comes at a cost and a risk (however small) to my babies.

yanbu

And seeing as though he's been mentioned already: I hate the way that Halvorsen bloke has made so much money from legal aid funds and vulnerable people - what he says is not to be trusted at all.

Have you seen that Melanie's Marvelous Measles book out now?
Just horrible to give it that title after what the Dahl family went through.
Roald Dahl's feelings were very clear:
""Here in Britain, because so many parents refuse, either out of obstinacy or ignorance or fear, to allow their children to be immunised, we still have a hundred thousand cases of measles every year. Out of those, more than 10,000 will suffer side effects of one kind or another. At least 10,000 will develop ear or chest infections. About 20 will die. LET THAT SINK IN. Every year around 20 children will die in Britain from measles. So what about the risks that your children will run from being immunised? They are almost non-existent. Listen to this. In a district of around 300,000 people, there will be only one child every 250 years who will develop serious side effects from measles immunisation! That is about a million to one chance. I should think there would be more chance of your child choking to death on a chocolate bar than of becoming seriously ill from a measles immunisation. So what on earth are you worrying about? It really is almost a crime to allow your child to go unimmunised. The ideal time to have it done is at 13 months, but it is never too late. All school-children who have not yet had a measles immunisation should beg their parents to arrange for them to have one as soon as possible. Incidentally, I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was James and the Giant Peach'. That was when she was still alive. The second was 'The BFG', dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles. You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children."

"Prevention is cheaper than treating the consequences"

Treating rubella? LOL. Do you even know what Rubella is?

Whyever would you want to try treating Rubella? It is so mild that most people miss it, it they have not noticed a barely-there 37.5 C fever for half a day and a pinprick rash that disappears within hours some days later.

"and in vaccinating your child, you protect their children."

Thanks for your concern but I happen to know that they are best protected if DD actually has rubella rather than rely on the waning immunity proffered by a vaccine offered as a baby. As I said before, she will have the vaccine if she tests non-immune to rubella in her teens, so no need to worry about her children.

Your knowledge of the immune system is very misguided.
Maybe... but I used to have severe eczema ...all up my arms, under my arms, across my back. Doctor said the only thing that would help was steroid creams basically. I chose to do a modified version of the gerson diet instead... just ate raw fruit and veg, soaked seeds etc. It had completely gone in 2weeks... coincidence? I'd suffered very badly for 3 years.
As I said the immune system is complex and throwing drugs at it rarely helps it to start working properly

"It should be mandatory to produce vaccination records when beginning school or nursery"

I don't know about the UK, but vaccination records are mandatory for acceptance into school and nursery.

MMR is not one of the mandatory vaccinations, though, possibly because they are normal childhood diseases that the vast majority of the population is immune to

... mandatory here in France, I meant to write.

You admit your knowledger may be misguided and then go on to talk absolute tripe. "throwing drugs at it rarely helps it to start working properly" just goes to show you have no real idea. Some autoimmune diseases can and will kill you without medical treatment, not bloody seeds.

The problem with rubella relates to unborn children. But don't let that bother you.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think will happen to your children if they are vaccinated for rubella?

oh and like Cote, I will get DS vaccinated against mumps if he tests negative. Hopefully he will have acquired natural immunity by then which will last a lifetime...
And no I'm not saying all medicine is bad, in acute illnesses its invaluable, but for chronic conditions not so much

A few points:

People in third world countries, whose children are dying of PREVENTABLE diseases, walk miles and queue for hours to receive these 'dangerous' vaccines.

I am all for breastfeeding - in fact I am a peer supporter, but it is not the holy grail with regards to this type of illness. It may reduce one's chances of catching them, but it is not a magic bullet and in fact it makes me very concerned when I see people treating it as such. Breastfeeding is 'normal'. It is the normal way to feed a baby - it does not magically defend their bodies against possible killer diseases. It helps (in some cases), but it is in no way comparable to vaccines with regards to prevention.

I am astounded by some of the arguments by a particular poster here. 'Aborted fetal tissue'. What a distasteful, thoughtless thing to bring up - but if we're going down that route - I am glad it was used in a way to benefit society rather than simply being disposed of.

Please note - I am not arguing against parents accounts of vaccine damage. But the numbers of proven vaccine damage are far less than the numbers of proven serious harm from some of these killer diseases.

All that said, I am not in favour of mandatory vaccination. I am more in favour of engaging with the public and their concerns, and I do believe the nhs/govt has fallen somewhat short here.

Oh OP - in case you haven't guessed, a big fat YANBU!

Chronic autoimmune conditions are generally 'managed' with drugs and not cured.