To think Andrew Wakefield has blood on his hands for causing so much distrust over the MMR?

[chicaguapa]

That's it really. He's caused so much damage with his stupid little study. It was years ago, he was struck off, the study was discredited, but people still don't get the MMR because of it.

Our library has several copies in the catalogue. I'm sure you would be able to order one from yours.

The truth about Vaccines by Richard Halvorsen is very poorly researched and shouldn't be recommended by anyone. Please remember the author makes his living selling single vaccines and been ordered to take misleading information of his website.

In these sorts of threads, I always bring up the same points:

1.) If the vaccine did trigger the autism (and I believe that in some people, it does) how do you know it would not have been triggered anyway?

2.) People say they don't want to take the small risk in this area but they take far bigger risks in every day life and those risks have huge consequences.

I'm talking about admitted to ICU or HDU post MMR in nappies until late childhood, non-verbal in teens, seizures, ongoing gut problems poorly seeker. Obviously varies depending on the individual child but that roughly describes the types of issues.

Ime - people are not looking to blame. They're looking for a reason why their healthy child changed rapidly so they can prevent it happening to siblings not so they can weep and wail and blame the world. Some are angry that it's so difficult to access medical care for children with ongoing health problems (this is mainly children with gut problems, it's easier to access care for things like seizures). There was a consensus paper published in a high impact journal on how children with autism & gut problems should be treated. It appears it is rare for the NHS to follow the guidelines suggested in that paper which can lead to frustrations, difficulties for families & children living with pain.

IM own E senior doctors (forget junior ones they just regurgitate the standard line) are quite happy to discuss the role vaccinations may have played in individual cases. While researchers are always happy to discuss their models as well.

Northernernlurker - I have a biology PhD & found the decision very easy to make right up until the moment ds1 regressed. That changed the risk analysis somewhat for his siblings.

yabu vey U

Oh God- is Halvorsen still peddling his crap?

Yes of course, anyone who speaks out against any vaccine, doctor or not must be talking bollox

I agree with the OP, but:

1. "The powers that be" do get it (massively) wrong from time to time - Thalidomide, CJD, Mid Staffs - can understand people sometimes being mistrustful, esp. when there is a massive story in the press

1. A lot of people queuing up for the vaccination now are parents of young babies having the booster early, as they have just been advised to.

My MIL lost a sibling to measles and taught a girl who died as a teenager of encephalitis following childhood measles. I had mumps when I was 4 and remember vividly how awful it was - no illness in the subsequent four decades has even come close. People have forgotten how feared those diseases were.

And Leo Blair DID have the MMR btw

No, babyhammock. But Richard Halvorsen makes a living out of providing single vaccines. Hardly a disinterested position.

On the same token, who funds the research into 'proving' vaccines are safe. Vaccines are a billion dollar industry

Babyhammock its follow because its based on crap research. The studies he sites do not say what he says they say.

I believe in a very small amount of DC MMR caused autism. If as the government I were deciding for the collective then mathematically MMR is the safest option. As I am deciding for my DS only I decided on single jabs, as far as I can see all I am risking is money.

"I believe in a very small amount of DC MMR caused autism"

Why do you believe that?

There is absolutely no reason for single vaccines, they are not safer, there is no verifiable medical reason that they are safer. In fact a recent study found a higher rate of anaphylaxis in children who have had singles.

Incidentally, and I'm going to give away where I live here to a lot of people, there is a man near me who goes round pushing a shopping trolley stopping every woman who has a pram giving them leaflets and DVDs.

They are absolutely horrible, full of claims vaccines are full of mercury and they're a government plot, it really upset me when I was given one of them when my baby was little. Can't think why he hasn't had an ASBO.

Ok just one example, will someone please tell me why it is necessary to vaccinate a tiny baby, with a fragile underdeveloped immune system, against rubella . How is it of benefit to that baby baring in mind it will more than likely no longer be effective by the time that child reaches 20?
Surely it is better to wait until girls are teens and then get them tested for rubella immunity. If they are naturally immune, great as they will be immune for life. If not then they can get vaccinated then. Same with mumps for boys except testing before puberty.

Does anyone know how many vaccines still contain mercury?

Agree with saintly jimjams and sydlexic.

Sydlexic, I face a lot of eye rolling when I decided not to let my dc2 with autism not to have the booster mmr. I let dc1 have it, but as saintly jimjams identifies also, the risks are not exactly the same for each child.

And this crucial point (imo) is just ignored and ignored. Until there is some sort of acknowledgement that the risks are not the same for every single child out there, you just can't trust advice that is for the greater good. Sacrifice my child at the altar of The Greater Good!?

I was not prepared to do that. And anybody who abuses me can just fire right ahead. I know my family's history. I have cousins who are on the spectrum (although very HF) and my mother and aunts told me that my brothers/cousins did have poo issues!

It's so easy for some internet warrior to come along and tell you you're a fool, or tell you you have blood on your hands (ffs) but I know that I did the right thing not letting my son have the booster mmr.

His sibling did have both, so I can hardly be written off as an hysteric on this matter. I assessed my children's risks individually.

Marriedinwhite makes some excellent points earlier in the thread about what it was like for those of us who have children who needed their vaccinations at the height of the MMR publicity.

It was very very hard for parents at the time to make the decision about MMR, and personally, I don't blame Wakefield for that. I blame the NHS and mainly the government for the way they dealt with the whole thing. They did nothing to help calm the fears of worried parents by treating us as if we were idiots for having reasonable concern about MMR.

I believe that if the medical profession had been more open to answering questions, there would be far fewer children suffering the consequences of non vaccination.

The fact that I couldn't even get our local vaccination nurse to admit that the second MMR jab was completely unnecessary in the vast majority of children, and that I knew they were not telling the truth about local vaccination rates contributed significantly to my decision to give my children single vaccines.

Well I am firmly of the opinion that MMR is unsafe for a very small percentage of children. I have never known a single person with a peanut allergy. Peanuts are safe for nearly everone to eat. But not for everybody. Of course the allergy has been proven. But can you see what I am getting at.

First of all a fragile undeveloped immune system is complete nonsense. Even premature babies can cope with vaccines. There is a really good link i have put recently which explains.
Secondly rubella is given a 13 months (not a tiny baby) so that the immune response is not interfered with by the immunity acquired from mother in the womb.
Thirdly i haven't seen much evidence of immunity dying off by 20s. There should be many cases of CRS if there was. Also rubella is very rare now and over 90% of suspected cases tested in the lab are negative. This is because we vaccinated early to eliminate the disease rather than just prevent it in individuals.
The last big rubella epidemic in US caused 10s of 1000s of CRS and even more miscarriages and still births. It is very difficult to get rubella as a child because it comes in epidemics every 5 to 7 years which is why so many ptenant women are affected.
I didn't get it until my teens and caught it off my mum who ws 38 years old at the time. I got it a few weeks before i was due to have the single vaccine at school. There are other risks from rubella as well even in childhood.

If anyone is thinking of getting their baby vaccinated early (someone was yesterday - talking about their 10 month old iirc) you might want to read this first Especially if you have had measles yourself.

Our old GP was very insistent on the MMR although we didnt want it. We went down the single jabs route and measles was given first so no time delay at at. The GP wouldnt tick that we had been done though so we switched GPs.

The new one was happy to mark DS as having the jabs and said it was parental choice just the same as making other choices in life.

I know there is now a shortage of mumps again but the mumps and measles are still available for those that want them. They need to resolve the licencing issues so that parents have a choice again.