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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Andrew Wakefield has blood on his hands for causing so much distrust over the MMR?

999 replies

chicaguapa · 06/04/2013 19:38

That's it really. He's caused so much damage with his stupid little study. It was years ago, he was struck off, the study was discredited, but people still don't get the MMR because of it. Angry

OP posts:
macdoodle · 07/04/2013 09:42

Not really tearing. There have been lots of comments, about "no smoke without fire", peoples opinions not being dismissed, doctor and government conspiracy, GP's just doing it for the money. As a GP and mother I find all of those quite disgusting.

RubyGates · 07/04/2013 09:42

I would absolutely use vaccines for my child if I could chose which ones and when.

I have grave doubts about the "load" that a very tiny immune system is required to process at a very early age. And I do wonder why the vaccines are bundled as they are.

Some diseases that we vaccinate for seem like an excellent idea, others, not so much. Boys should probably be vaccinated for mumps at 12 or so if they haven't had it in the wild, girls should definitely be vaccinated for rubella at about the same time.

And using the available figures for hospitalisation, complications and death, it should be easy to work out which diseases we should be using our stretched NHS resources to vaccinate against.

So for me at least (with an MSc in data and information collection and manipulation and OH a physicist with an MSc in Systems Analysis) the MMR seems like a bad option for our child, but separate, carefully selected vaccines would be acceptable.

But that's not what this thread is about, really is it?
And I am very, very tired of explaining the Urabe strain to those who, for some reason, believe the NHS and the Government mass vaccination programme is never involved in obfuscation or downright lies.

And no, it didn't occur to me 23-odd years ago that I should complain about my GP, because people kept telling me how I should just shut up and listen to them because I was an uneducated single parent.

I didn't have access to the internet, or support groups and it was only later that we found out about the Urabe strain, and very much later that Aspergers was diagnosed, because back then things were very different.

hairtearing · 07/04/2013 09:43

Looking for something/someone/anything to blame does not make things better.

Anything to blame? things like that don't happen for no reason.its about finding a reason. My vaccinations didn't cover me at all, I've re had them about 4 times and I'm young tbh, so nothing is foolproof.
I don't agree with not vaccinating but when the alternative is so expensive I think that's wrong.

MandragoraWurzelstock · 07/04/2013 09:45

I didn't say any of those things Macdoodle yet you persist in ignoring my comments

seeker · 07/04/2013 09:47

"Oh jeez not the 'looking for someone to blame' argument. It's so offensive. The people I know whose children were very poorly after MMR"

Maybe looking for someone to blame is a bad choice of words. Looking for a reason. Looking for a cause. Trying to find explanations are all better. And completely and utterly understandable, and what we all do.

What sort of very poorly are the children you are talking about?

hairtearing · 07/04/2013 09:47

The point is some of those jabs have had terrible consequences like many other medical advances that have risks.
Its bad enough people have to live with the aftermath, then be persecuted by people who have never experienced it, And society is happy with the an alternative if they can bleed you through the nose fir it first.

seeker · 07/04/2013 09:49

"The point is some of those jabs have had terrible consequences like many other medical advances that have risks."

What terrible consequences have which jabs had?

MandragoraWurzelstock · 07/04/2013 09:50

Fuck it. I'll just say no thanks to the vaccines I think because I don't feel I have enough info to make an informed decision with.

If anyone DOES have anything unbiased they can link to I'd be very grateful.

cheers.

Dilemma247 · 07/04/2013 09:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 07/04/2013 09:52

I suppose it depends what you mean by unbiased. If you're talking about the MMR/autism link, how about every single study that's been done anywhere in the world except Wakefield's?

bruffin · 07/04/2013 09:54

AW was in talks setting up a company to market the single vaccine and as a transfer factor which was supposed to be used to repair his non existent syndrome which was supposed to be a result of vaccine damage.
Two lots of coi in one and that's before we get into being and the pay of lawyers to find a connection.

Yes there is lots of info out there
Search my name for last couple of weeks and i have put up links to the IOM Review of vaccine effects and causality, WHO safe vaccine websites etc

MandragoraWurzelstock · 07/04/2013 09:56

Thanks Bruff that's useful. I appreciate it.

MandragoraWurzelstock · 07/04/2013 09:58

Thankyou Babyhammock. Unfortunately it's beyond my budget but will look out for it cheaper.

VivaLeBeaver · 07/04/2013 09:58

But when the mmr info leaflet itself has two pages of possible side effects inc encephalitis, diabetes, possible death, etc then there must be other research backing that up apart from Wakefield's.

Dilemma247 · 07/04/2013 09:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VivaLeBeaver · 07/04/2013 09:59

And they need to make the mumps single vaccine available, it hasn't been for 12 years. Dd could do with it, at the moment she isn't inoculated.

MandragoraWurzelstock · 07/04/2013 10:00

To clarify when I said targets to meet, I didn't mean the doctors are financially motivated. I meant they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

seeker · 07/04/2013 10:00

There are possible side effects to everything- have you read the leaflet that comes with a packet of paracetamol?

Wakefield's research was nothing to do with the side effects you list.

MandragoraWurzelstock · 07/04/2013 10:01

I imagine Viva is aware of those things, she is medically qualified IIRC

NorthernLurker · 07/04/2013 10:03

I believe vaccines are 'bundled' because a) it's safe to do that and b) parental compliance isn't great and the fewer appointments children need to attend to get the full dose the better. Not every parent is a mumsnet type - anxious, conscientous, prioritising multiple appointments. Come to that I do prioritise my dds health and I still forgot to take dd3 for her pre-school booster for a few months. No reminder was sent for some reason and it was a story in the media about measles that prompted me. If you made the vaccine programme longer and more complex you will end up protecting less children. You run the risk of parents priortising certain illnesses too - like Measles because everybody's heard of that - whilst missing out say diptheria - because who knows anybody who's had that? Never mind that it's a terrible killer of an illness.

babyhammock · 07/04/2013 10:03

Blimey I hadn't noticed the price it is now! It used to be £9.99 :(
The publisher is www.gibsonsquare.com/ they might be able to do it cheaper....

VivaLeBeaver · 07/04/2013 10:03

I know Seeker, it just doesn't make decisions any easier though does it. Smile

seeker · 07/04/2013 10:06

Viva- I'm puzzled.Why did you talk about the listed side effects and then say that there must be more research than Wakefield's then?

NorthernLurker · 07/04/2013 10:06

You see Viva I just don't get that. Dh has a biology degree, I've worked for the NHS for 10 years. I think we're as well informed as any parents you'll find and I found the decision to accept MMR and other vaccinations for my dds to be one of the easiest decisions I've ever made.