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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think God has no place in my 5 year old's school

171 replies

MeSoFunny · 26/03/2013 09:22

She told me at bedtime last night that 'bad people die but Jesus came to suffer for us so we don't have to'. We're not religious, in fact we're Humanists, and fail to see why a non-religious school would be inviting a local youth 'education' group in to give regular assemblies to children this young (if at all).

Why aren't other people questioning it? Why aren't our children being encouraged to develop critical faculties? I'm feeling frustrated and cross.

OP posts:
Original poster
MeSoFunny · 26/03/2013 09:38

I would prefer schools to be able to present religion more responsibly so I didn't have to withdraw her... sigh

OP posts:
CheeseStrawWars · 26/03/2013 09:38

"Chocovore I know that there is some requirement to discuss religion in schools" - no, it's a requirement to worship.

Collective Worship - legal requirement

WilsonFrickett · 26/03/2013 09:39

OP, you don't seem to be getting the point that UK schools are Christian though? Collective worship is expected to be performed and as a pp said, that is to be of 'largely Christian' nature. RE is taught as a subject, so it's not the same thing, ie there's no obligation to perform a Jewish act of worship (for eg), but there is to teach that there is a religion called Judaism.

Original poster
MeSoFunny · 26/03/2013 09:40

How is a youth group acting out Bible stories religious worship?

OP posts:
greencolorpack · 26/03/2013 09:40

Mesofunny why withdraw her?? What is the worst that can happen? I don't get your paranoia.

WilsonFrickett · 26/03/2013 09:41

Maybe it's not, maybe they're 'doing Easter' as their RE study this term.

WilsonFrickett · 26/03/2013 09:42

Pressed too soon - they will be 'doing Diwali' or 'doing Hanakuh' another term.

Hopeforever · 26/03/2013 09:44

As a Christian I am very glad that faith groups visit the school and teach my children about their faith and belief. When they come home we can discus what they have heard and what they think.

I would find it very strange if they only heard about my faith or lack of faith. I want them to make up their wn minds.

One is firmly of the opinion that God does not exist, but would not put a name to himself, the other is a practicing Christian.

Withdraw your child from Christian assembly if you wish but it would be strange to remove them from RE which should be about all the major world faiths.

Then at home you can discuss all you want

WorraLiberty · 26/03/2013 09:44

YABU

If God has no place in the school, he'll just have to join the waiting list like all the other 1000s...

teacherwith2kids · 26/03/2013 09:45

MeSoFunny,

Well, a whole host of church attenders will have been acting out the events of Palm Sunday as part of their Sunday worship last weekend....

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHopeful · 26/03/2013 09:45

green the inanity around fluffy bunnies and eggs stems from this country's pagan roots. Centuries ago those beliefs were held as dearly and taken as seriously as Christianity now.
Don't be so dismissive of other faiths, there are still practicing pagans.

Hopeforever · 26/03/2013 09:46

Worra Grin

Blatherskite · 26/03/2013 09:46

There is, unfortunately, no such thing as a non-religious school and all schools must cover some sort of collective worship Sad

There has been a festival at this time of the year for a lot, lot longer than there has been Christianity but this is the one that has been appropriated most completely so I wasn't surprised when DS came home asking about Jesus yesterday. We did the usual 'some people believe but Mummy and Daddy don't' and he seems to have taken it all with a pinch of salt thankfully.

I also feel like our school weighs too heavily on one religion - I can remember many Easter/Christmas/Harvest festivals but as far as I know, they've only done Diwali once in reception and nothing since. I'd have a word but it seems like a good proportion of the Governers are Christian church-goers so I'm not sure anything would change.

TolliverGroat · 26/03/2013 09:47

But, Step, you don't need to be taught that it's factually accurate in order to understand any of that.

OP, I had similar issues with DD's nursery this time last year -- not with a theatre group coming in, but one of the staff who had very strong personal religious convictions. "Why does Jesus live in our hearts, Mummy?" "Well... erm... not everyone believes that he does. Some people think that while other people think..." "But he DOES, Mummy! He DOES live in our hearts! X told me he does..." Hmm

greencolorpack · 26/03/2013 09:50

Whenshewasbad, sorry, I just thought it was inane. Are chocolate eggs really pagan? I have my own issues with chocolate eggs, ie my daughter is unable to eat dairy and every year without fail my kids Sunday School gives them all chocolate eggs. So my dd who I am hoping will grow up and believe in God is getting the message loud and clear "religious festivals are celebrated by children being given delicious food that poisons you, watch everyone else enjoying it while you have to give your chocolate egg away". I wish they would NOT give out Chocolate eggs in church. Or chocolate at Easter. It's thoughtless and mindless and I expect better from church (but never get it).

Blatherskite · 26/03/2013 09:50

The "inanity about fluffy bunnies and eggs" predates Christianity by a long way! It's all about fertility and the arrival of Spring. Dates all the way back to the Babylonians as far as I remember

tiggytape · 26/03/2013 09:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHopeful · 26/03/2013 09:51

tolliver that's dreadful.

I have no problem with religion being taught, it's the presentation of it as fact that disturbs me. If I had my way I would scrap any legal requirement for collective worship.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 26/03/2013 09:53

I think your DD could have been checking out what you think about what she was told by sharing it with you. So, I'd say that is the Easter story that christians believe, and then I'd tell her a bit about what you believe in relation to that, maybe that you feel that sadly when we die that is the end of our life but that that's why it's important to enjoy it while we're here and to look after one another, and that we will always remember those that we have loved.
I can see why you'd be annoyed that she's been told beliefs you don't share as if they were fact, especially at school. But in some ways we can't protect them from encountering those with strongly held beliefs who will want to share their faith or ideas. Persuasive language is all around too, for example in advertising.
Perhaps look on it as an opportunity to understand more about people having different beliefs, and to how we can both be kind and tolerant of this, and also develop our critical faculties ! It's a positive anyway that she's talking with you about what she's heard. Then the ball is in your court about where to go from there ! I think it would be good to talk it over with the HT as well, as they are certainly coming on a bit strong with the christian message fr a non-faith school and with such young children, and so little context of other faiths and POV.
Good luck for parents evening, hope the discussions go well !

ByTheWay1 · 26/03/2013 09:55

We are atheists and just do a lot of "some people believe...." when we get the "good people go to heaven when they die" stuff trotted out...

and the "some people used to believe the Sun was a God and was happy with the people when it shined" when we get the good/bad/happy/wrathful God thing...

our viewpoint is different to the Christian one, but not necessarily better/right/wrong etc.....

greencolorpack · 26/03/2013 10:00

Juggling, good post. It's true that persuasive language is everywhere, people only tend to notice when it contradicts their own beliefs.

Bytheway, Christians do NOT believe "good people go to Heaven". It's actually "FORGIVEN people go to Heaven.". It's a massive difference, it is where Christianity differs from every other world religion. We can't ever be good enough for Heaven on our own, we need Jesus's forgiveness because only he was good enough to die for our sins.

FreyaSnow · 26/03/2013 10:01

Schools have to both teach RE and provide religious worship that is largely Christian in nature. You can withdraw your child from the worship but not from RE itself.

It is likely these groups are coming in as part of RE. It might be worth asking the teacher how the group is being presented. My children routinely came home saying "Christians believe XYZ,"because that is how the school presented it, even though actual Christian groups did come in and talk to the kids.

I don't think you can know at this point how much is being done on the other religions, as your child is only five. Schools have to teach the main six religions.

I agree with the poster who mentioned the cultural importance of Christianity. This is a culturally Christian country (with a lot of pagan influences as well). Children should understand the story behind that.

Blatherskite · 26/03/2013 10:06

The only time I've ever complained to School is when DS was told that "God made all the colours" as a response to a question he asked!

I can cope with the RE element even though I have a feeling that is done in the same 'this is the truth' manner but having it seep into the rest of the curriculum was just too much. Thankfully, the teacher that does this is only in class occasionally.

Myliferocks · 26/03/2013 10:09

You can withdraw your child from both collective worship and RE lessons if you want to.
In my DS's CofE school one child doesn't do RE lessons.

cantspel · 26/03/2013 10:09

A chocolate egg is not part of pagan worship nor is the fluffy easter bunny.

Pagans would give coloured eggs as a sign of fertility not a lump of chocolate shaped like an egg and the ester bunny didn't appear until the 16th century when he was found in German writings, which said that if well-behaved children built a nest out of their caps or bonnets, they would be rewarded with colored eggs.