Are SAHMS discriminated against. Red magazine are doing an article about it.

[Darkesteyes]

Just seen this on twitter.

Are stay at home mums discriminated against? Are you one and unhappy with benefits, or feel judged? Tell us.
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she wasn't questioned on what she had been doing for the last 5 years- it was obvious, she walked back into a teaching job. Being a SAHP had not hindered her job prospects like it would today

However there are some professions, and teaching is one, where women are very well represented. I don't think anyone would bat an eyelid at a teacher taking time out while the children were pre-school age, but maternity leave arrangements are pretty good for teachers and most of them do seem to go back. Even if they didn't, their professional qualifications would still be valid, and you could even argue that becoming a parent adds to a teacher's CV.

I think it's a different situation in other professions which aren't quite so accepting of family life, or those where shifts and weekend working can be difficult to accommodate. Obviously in all professions, it's important to do as much CPD as you can throughout, and try to maintain contacts.

I seriously doubt a teacher who had taken a career break would be discriminated against solely for that reason. I know there is quite a lot of competition for jobs in teaching now, mainly because there are so many recent graduates looking for NQT positions. At both my DD's junior and secondary schools there were/are qualified teachers doing TA jobs hoping for vacancies to come up.

I agree that goldenbears posts are baffling.
When I appoint, I don't know from a candidates cv whether they have children or not- why should I? If, in their covering letter they choose to explain any time out of the workplace, citing specific examples of how they have maintained and developed relevant skills and knowledge during that time- great . At interview I am not going to ask any questions about whether the candidates have children- why would I? That would be perceived as discriminatory.

So, if at the end of all that, I dont appoint a SAHM, clearly Goldenbear will cry 'prejudice!' yet i am failing to see how...

There are certain roles and teaching comes to mind because it is so child friendly where being good with children is very important and you get masses of school holidays. My DM was one and it suited our lifestyle when I was growing up.

However those are rare. You need to show child care skills in a role in childcare and schooling, it makes sense.

If you are applying for an executive role in the city you better be really clear on why you are best person for the job despite not having done it for 5 years. You will if I am honest be at a disadvantage here.

If your partner has been used to you doing all the childcare during the day it is often a great shock when you suddenly ask him to do his share of pick up's and a executive role with some travelling perhaps will need crystal clear organisation and agreement within your family. If your DP gets home at 1900 every day and the pick up is 1800 whose going to do that, is he going to reduce his hours or are they still assuming you will do that too.....

The reason I am saying this is that in my experience SAHP's DO come into interviews ill prepared. Not all of them but a majority. They are not wearing appropriate clothes sometimes for a customer facing role, or they dont have clear reasons and seem to not have thought through why they are there. This thread supports the view that some people do think that taking a career break of 5 years is of interest to employers. Its not - in this current climate which isnt going to change they will be looking for the best candidate, not someone who took 5 years years out of the workplace for whatever reason.

There are many skills that you can gain as a parent/ sahp/ that are transferable to the workplace.
Getting a foot in the door is the important thing and many that have started with what seems like a basic mw unskilled/semi skilled job have progressed to management positions.

The hospitality, travel and tourism industries are a good example of this.

I don't understand what is baffling you? I explained in my previous post that a SAHP has decided to do a role, why should they not use examples from that role when answering questions at an interview.

I wanted to be a SAHP and am one, others don't want that. They're are just different choices, I'm not sure why one has to be seen as superior to the other when it comes to getting a job.

Its fine to use examples of any experience and skills which are relevant to the job Goldenbear. We keep agreeing that. What isn't clear is why you are so determined not to believe those of us who are actually currently in the business of recruitment

Sadly, I do believe the view of SAHP on this thread is very prevalent in many organisations and the belief that SAH role is not work is the major problem and fundamentally why they are discriminated against.

Morethan you beg to differ with what?? The fact I have no interest in people adding their children to their CVs or see the relevance in asking them at interview stage (which is a bit dangerous employment law territory) because I would rather understand why they think they are best suited to the position? You would think people would praise us for this. Or the fact that the skills people have mentioned as attained (negotiations, communications etc.) are skills most people have but using them at home and in a professional environment is totally different. Or is it that I don't see the relevance in telling me how you resolved two toddlers fighting over what to watch rather I want to know how those skills will close a deal?

janey

I know where you are coming from. I have been out of the workplace for which I am qualified for many years. Irrespective of skills there are other issues such as knowledge being up to date where I would struggle if ill prepared. No amount of skills gained through being a parent would have any bearing here.

I do think it is important though to inform people that it is possible to gain the knowledge and recent skills relevant to the position. For e.g customer service will always be the same, H.R will always be the same but if absent for a while you would need to brush up on recent legislation and practice before applying for positions.

Well youve been asked countless times to show the evidence from the thread but you won't.

I honestly cannot see what you're talking about. What I see is a number of people responsible for recruitment who are telling you until we're blue in the face that all we want is the best person for the job- nothing controversial about that at all.

Most people have also agreed with you that as a parent you acquire and develop all sorts of valuable skills- but that's the case for all parents, SAH or WOH, so those things in themself won't put you ahead of other parents ( or indeed non parents) who have also developed those skills.

That last message was to Goldenbear btw

As far as I can see, selling drugs on a street corner would look better on a CV than being a SAHM.

Littlechickpea

All we are saying is it's not relevant when you are interviewing for a job

For many jobs it is relevant if its a skill you have gained through being a parent. Maybe not for an exec office based job, but these are the minority not the majority of jobs.

Lot of interviews are competency,and sceanario based to the specific post
Eg tell me how you managed given situation relevant to post applied for
Now if you have recent,relevant experience you'll recall it.if your experience
Is bring grocery budget in on time,on budget you'll maybe struggle

A key word here is relevance. If skills and experience are relevant to the post, then of course it may be useful during the application process.

Another key word is 'competition'- because the reality is that these days there is a lot of competition for most jobs. So even if you have relevant skills drawn from parenting which are relevant, they aren't going to put you ahead of a WOHP who may well have also developed those same skills plus have extra things which make them the best person for the post. That it's discrimination. What would be discrimatory would be to employ a SAHP just because they've been a SAHP, even though other people might have those same 'parent based' skills plus more.

more than For many jobs it is relevant if its a skill you have gained through being a parent. Maybe not for an exec office based job, but these are the minority not the majority of jobs. If you went through the previous debate you well see that we have already acknowledge that in some specialisms (childcare, teaching etc.) it would be relevant. But there are more sectors that wouldn't be interest, than they are that would be.

Also some of the people on the thread that raised this are people that are looking to be in a well/high paid or want to get into well/high paid non child related positions. I am afraid it would be unlikely it would be relevant in those interviews.

Scottishmummy agree..

I think I put in too many 'relevants' there! And that should of course read 'that ISN'T discrimination' (to appoint the person with better skills)
This is doing my head in!

SAHMs also develop skills that WOHMs do not develop, however.

Goldenbear I don't understand what is baffling you? Its possibly that you come across as out of touch and unrealistic in you examples, and don't work, whilst claiming to have well paid job offers coming out of your ears (that a phrase in modern parlance too), which you turn down.

I explained in my previous post that a SAHP has decided to do a role, why should they not use examples from that role when answering questions at an interview

Because its not relevant to the job. Just like your relationship or marriage isn't relevant to the job. Its part of your personal life, and should be kept personal. A bit like how university applicants are expected to provide examples of workplace or volunteering experience if they want to get into certain vocational courses.

Furthermore, SAHPs are allowed to have interests outwith the children, and might choose to mention these if relevant at interview.

I'm one of the 8% having a quick lunch break and also a parent. I don't feel that I have ever been discriminated against because I have children.
However, I only stayed at home for 8 months with my DD. I think there are a number of factors involved in this issue.
The jobs market has changed out of all recognition in the last few years, immigration and outsourcing being amongst the key factors. There are great swathes of jobs that typically women did that just aren't there anymore in the numbers that they were, for example call centre roles.
I think this is polarising the jobs market, high monetary, technical and professional roles and low value, relatively low skill roles. I'm lucky that my careeer falls into the former. I did however realise that I couldn't take an extended period of time out without becoming out of date and less employable. I was fortunate though that at the end of my maternity leave to request a 4 day week role, I had no trouble with this request, partly I think, due to the fact that I was in the right place at the right time and my Co didn't want to lose my skills and experience and because I had the confidence to ask. I've also moved Co's and ask for the same working arrangements - again never had a problem.

I can imagine if you take a significant time out of the jobs markets confidence is something that will be lacking and if you want to impress an interviewer you need to demonstrate that your skills are transferable to the role. Using your influencing skills with children is nowhere near the same as dealing with the political aspects of a workplace, that's just a fact not something an interveiwer will use to discriminate with.
I recruit individuals in to my department, if you have the right skills and knowledge you will get the job.
Apologies for typo's - done in a hurry!

Bonsoir SAHMs also develop skills that WOHMs do not develop, however. Please can you specify what skills SAHM develop that WOHMs or people with no children don't develop

I'm thinking of skills to do with motivating, managing and leading people over whom you have no authority - for example, many SAHMs devote a huge amount of time to voluntary roles where they need to have very strong leadership skills in order to engage others. If you cannot pay people and you have no HR and need to create your own organisation and engage people to work for free, your personal management techniques really come to the fore.

Oh I wouldn't bite Littlechickpea..

THanks *Janey68]. I wasn't going to...

Bonsoir - what nonsense! Of course working parents need to do this. Not everyone I come into contact with within my company I have authority over! I need to persuade them that my request is perhaps more urgent than my colleagues etc etc.

If someone refuses to fulfil my request I dont go running off the HR to report them!

I would actually argue that personal management techniques are far far stronger in someone who is working.

And you wouldnt think of using that example in an interview would you......

And really do SAMP's devote HUGE amounts of time to voluntary - really? Not around here they dont unless you count the helpers at school listening to readers a couple of times a week....