Are SAHMS discriminated against. Red magazine are doing an article about it.

[Darkesteyes]

Just seen this on twitter.

Are stay at home mums discriminated against? Are you one and unhappy with benefits, or feel judged? Tell us.
[email protected]

[treaclesoda]

I think I'm probably going to go against the grain here and say that I've been treated with much more respect by society in general once I gave up work and became a SAHM. But the reason for this is probably that prior to giving up work, I just had an 'ordinary' job, I wasn't in some high flying career (not for lack of trying, mind you!). I had a decent job, a responsible job, but it wasn't highly paid, I didn't travel for work, and I didn't spend every waking hour telling people about it (because my job bored me, so I had no reason to believe it would interest anyone else).

When I became a SAHM, people suddenly seemed to look on us as being wealthy, middle class etc. DH has a 'professional' job and earns a decent salary, we can pay the bills without having to worry about it. But money isn't plentiful, we can't afford holidays etc (which is fine by me, we've made our choices, and we couldn't afford them if I was working either, because my salary would be cancelled out by childcare costs).

I find it quite depressing that people who treated me with not a lot of respect when I was an 'ordinary' office worker suddenly find me to be their social equal on the grounds that my husband can afford to 'keep' me.

[janey68]

well said soverylucky.

[LessMissAbs]

Well, I'm sorry Ihategeorge, but while I fully support SAHMS (other than the spoilt princess type which thankfully is rare), I do think its advisable for women to establish some type of career first or at least a life with some interests or skills in it before becoming one, or if not, then afterwards. After all, its a bit of a wasted life, is it not?

(and you will have to excuse me, because English is not actually my first language, and where we come from, not only do we speak very directly but we are encouraged to think like this and be independent).

[LessMissAbs]

I find it quite depressing that people who treated me with not a lot of respect when I was an 'ordinary' office worker suddenly find me to be their social equal on the grounds that my husband can afford to 'keep' me

Well not me treacle. I respect you far more for having a career before having DCs. I also find it depressing that some people judge women on their husband's status and not as individuals. Its very old fashioned but I know its prevalent. I also think that for too many men, having a wife who doesn't have to work is a status symbol, and there are a lot of men who see a wife who has a career as competition or not under the thumb enough, rather than being proud of her achievements. As I say, I find this attitude far more prevalent in DH's profession, engineering, than I do in the professions my female friends work in, which are law, medicine, dentistry and accounting in the main.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I had a demanding well paid career until I had my second dc. It was definitely not a career I could combine with dc though, unless they were at boarding school.

[BooCanary]

My intelligent and articulate friend who has a good job in a field that she loves, recently told me she was thinking of not going back to work after her 2nd DC.

The reason she gave was that her dh struggled to manage work and helping with home-life, he wasn't able to take leave to cover childcare issues/illness, and they both thought theyd have more chance of a more financially stable future if she sah and enabled him to climb the promotional ladder.

Whilst maybe this may be a practical and pragmatic approach, I find it hugely one-sided and quite sad.

[treaclesoda]

My husband doesn't see it as a status symbol that he can afford for me to be a SAHM. I'm sure he would much prefer it if I was earning a huge salary and we could both afford to work and live the high life. But that's not the reality, we live in an area where salaries are low, so we have to make do with things the way they are.

[merrymouse]

Are people really breast feeding their children so often after a year that they have to be with their child all day?

[HappyMummyOfOne]

"I have to say there are few posters on here who claim to be SAHMs who come across as spoilt princesses, with totally unrealistic expectations of the workplace and what employers are looking for. I would think that attitude is the barrier to their employment, rather than their current or past status as SAHMs. Its the same with some recent graduates, employers want to avoid the sort spoilt princess/prince employee who think the world revolves around them."

Totally agree, some very spoilt people but their parents and spouses have let them become this way. You wouldnt pick a spoilt person as a friend and they are a nightmare to work with.

Talk of husbands not being able to work without them, expecting not to do half the housework and free time for hobbies etc - but yes, not entitled much . Not to mention they want money from the state and a medal in recognition.

A SAHP puts themselves in a very precarious position. Should the other partner leave or become to ill to work they have no backup, no recent work experience to gain a job (not that they would work anyway as their child would be damaged if they did that from statements on here) and are likely to end up on benefits. If i had a daughter there is no way i would want her to be reliant upon a man for her every need. The same as I dont want DS growing up to believe he has to work hard just so his wife can sit around and pursue her hobbies.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I don't have to be. I WANT to be merrymouse. There is a difference.

[merrymouse]

(And I do think that childcare is a valid thing to do all day, whether paid or not, just as I think growing your own veg is as valid a way to spend your time as working to buy things from a supermarket. It's just I don't think only women can or should do it).

[janey68]

Puts hand up: I breastfed both mine til well over a year. It's not incompatible with working, in fact dd was fully fed on breastmilk when I first returned to work.
Fine to be at home if you want, but it's important for women to know that bf is not a barrier to working (since this discussion is all about removing any perceived barriers to mums in the workplace )

[LessMissAbs]

Agree with every word of your post HappyMummy.

Spoilt, self obsessed people who feel the need to constantly tell you how wonderful/special/entitled they are while in reality they try to get other people to run around after them are a nightmare, whether they are SAHMs or not. Some of the comments on this thread about what people think is suitable to say in a job interview are laughable.

I certainly don't think this behaviour is the preserve of SHAMS, more that theres always going to be a certain number of people who are like this. I, for one, just can't be bothered with them. And they're a total pain in the workplace and usually don't last long, whether or not they are SAHMS.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Why am I spoilt and entitled? My husband earns the money. I look after our children. We pay our own way and receive nothing from the state. My husband works hard in his career. I work hard at home with the children. We are a partnership. I have worked from university until second dc. I know exactly what the work place expects from me, which is why I am in no hurry to return there just yet. When the time is right for us as a family, or if circumstances change beyond our control, then I will return to the work place. I do have plans to be self-employed though if at all possible. I still see why all this vitriol towards stay at home mums. It sounds very spiteful.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

don't see why

[janey68]

I think littlemiss was making a point that it isnt SAHM as a collective group who are spoilt and entitled. It's a personality trait rather than something that applies to a whole group of people

[LessMissAbs]

Exactly that - thanks Janey less long winded that me. I certainly have no "problem" with SAHMS and respect that choice if it works for someone.

[Goldenbear]

LessMissAbs, Littlechickpea, do you have experience in making these choices that you're criticising and offering advice on? I.e have you been either SAHP or WOHM?

[maisiejoe123]

I wish some of the SAHM's on this thread would stop claiming they are tax payers and listing out all the very important jobs they do around house. I am good a housework and ensuring everyone is where they should be in terms of playdates sleepo overs etc too.... You aren't tax payers. You might know or be with one that is but you aren't not paying tax. You have chosen to opt out.

Some have asked how myself and my DH can do it. Without outing myself I will list out a few of the ways.

Some won't like how we have done it, but you have asked so here we go.....

1. Don't have children young. Build up your career and prove your worth with your empolyer.
   

1. Don't keep moving around the industry. If you are working for a decent company with a good track record stay.
   

1. Live in the SE where the opps are greater. If you lost your role there would be more chance of getting another one
   

1. Ask to work at home one day a week and make a business case. Prove you are trustworthy enough to do that
   

1. Don't constantly advetise that darling Jonny always needs to go the dentist or complain about the number of parents evenings there are for your 3 children. Just quietly organise attendance with your OH. You might need to accept that not both of you can go but we have never failed for one of us to attend.
   

1. If something is essential to attend like a key parents evening and the School has it at an odd time. Take annual leave. Again don't start telling people how unfair it is you need to take it as leave! The childless employees in particular just won't be interested and you will come accross as 'entitled'.
   

1. Build a plan B and Plan C group of like minded parents who you can call upon (and they can call upon you) if both of you are running late for a pick up.
   

And there are many many more ways. Choose to stay at home if you wish, but there are ways of doing it......

[janey68]

George- FWIW I've seen nothing in your posts which suggest you're spoilt and entitled. You are a partnership with your dh and you have a set up which suits you all. You have a particular view on taxation which is different to mine, but that's fine- life and particularly politics is all about different perspectives!

That's a far cry from some of the posts we've had on here from SAHM who really seem to have a problem with WOHM, and start making ridiculous claims about childcare being the work of the devil etc.
I have nothing but respect for a SAHP who does It well and accepts that others love their children just as much and raise them just as well but combine it with work. Really. What I don't have any time for is people who are narrow minded and think their way is the only way.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Well aware of all those points maisie. Not sure what your point is though.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Thanks janey

[janey68]

I think Maisie's point is that what some people see as barriers, other people see as challenge that has to be worked around

She's not suggesting that people blindly follow her list- in fact one of her points is the total opposite to what I did. I was raised in the SE and decided to get out ASAP (even though it meant moving away from family) because I wanted someone with more affordable housing.

It's not a prescriptive list of 'thou shalt do this '. It's more a recognition that we all have a degree of control over our lives and that we should make decisions and be content with our choice. At least that's the way I read it

[LessMissAbs]

Good advice Maisiejoe. I would also add that several of the traditional professions can be very family friendly towards women. The medical and dental professions have many opportunities at an advanced level for part-time working, and many solicitors and accountants work part-time. But it is easier to establish your career before having children.

I also think expecting or demanding to work part-time is unrealistic in a new job, but its often the case that once you have proved your worth in a job, you may be able to negotiate part-time hours if you are considered an asset to the employer and they don't want to lose you.

Its also a good idea to base yourself in an area where the economy is strong and job opportunities are higher.

[LittleChickpea]

The really sad thing Is, the princess, entitled whining women (not all women i appreciate) martyrs take away from the actual discussion. I have heard a lot of complaining and "oh woo me" big bad society and Gov are treating badly. But I haven't heard any real ideas as to what we should do. They few banded about have no financial basis. One actually wanted to take money away from pensioners - dear god! You would think these things come at no cost! So they want changes that cost and they seem to want to pass that cost onto the next generation (their DC) or maybe they think businesses get it from the "Fairy Bank of Black Hole" but at the same time they seem to refuse to accept its parental responsibility to bring up your child and financially support them. Yes support low incomes and working parents but if your choice is to be a SAHP then you can afford o do it. And to top it off there is a real lack of understanding of what's happening in their own country and the impact this could/will have on their DC.

I am new to mumsnet but I am so disappointed in some of the comments expressed. I am sorry but a lot sounded "Entitled".