Are SAHMS discriminated against. Red magazine are doing an article about it.

[Darkesteyes]

Just seen this on twitter.

Are stay at home mums discriminated against? Are you one and unhappy with benefits, or feel judged? Tell us.
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There a number of people on this thread who think that all of that is really relevant at interviews.... It isnt, what about some funny stories about your children did when they were wrong?

Stay away from this area. Its what we all have to do....

how is making childcare cheaper a jibe at SAHMs????

Well, you have handily given me a chance to sum up the way I feel about it!

It isn't a "jibe at SAHMs" - I think that analysis is flawed, and this thread encourages that by asking completely the wrong question.

The original point being made by the SAHM who rang Nick Clegg's phone-in was in relation to "discrimination" through financial disadvantage in the tax and benefits system.

We have been encouraged to turn it into a SAHM/WOHM bunfight, which I think is deeply regrettable.

The changes won't come in until 2015 anyway (if they do...), and will only apply to children under 5. So no more help for before/after school childcare which many working parents use.

As well as excluding some of the families who most need help the government is making childcare more complex.

Absolutely Impty!

Hilarious that people are advising without knowing peoples' backgrounds, education, previous employment. Personally, prior to SAH, my job was very difficult to get into but even if it wasn't, do people seriously think i am going to take unsolicited advice from some random person on a discussion forum??

Its a very basic interview skill that you "sell" yourself as being suitable to the job and having relevant experience. Employers want to know whether you can do the job, not about how much you value your own parenting skills. That risks coming across as out of touch and a tad self-obsessed.

Just like the man who my DH interviewed for a job as a computer programmer, who talked about how he had spent the last three years "working" as a "professional gambler". He didn't get the job; he didn't come across well as a person who had relevant experience, or could even recognise relevant experience and the skills required, or what was appropriate or not in the workplace.

I'm not seeing the discrimination against SAHMS tbh, more a description of how being a SAHM can make you out of touch with the workplace and how lack of relevant recent experience can make it more difficult for everyone to find jobs.

Politically and ideologically DH and I probably have the perfect set up, we do the same job for the same pay, we both work flexibly and take equal share of childcare and household duties.

However all things equal, when I compare our setup with many of my friends who SAHM and partner works earning similar than we do combined - (so same family income), they have a much less stressful life.

They are not only able to be there more for the children (although we manage between us pretty well) but are able to devote more time to themselves (with children at school) and the community, and do have a much more balanced, stress free life than us. They also don't have to shell out for childcare or panic about school holidays/sickness and the like.

I like the fact I still have a career and that DH is a very present father, but I do think that this comes at a cost. Nothing is ever perfect.

Well I'm certainly not advising anyone on specifics - I have no need to, we regularly get 100 or so applicants per post, of which probably at least a third would be good enough to get an interview.

To be fair, I think the general comments about interviews were responding to some of the earlier posts where people who

a) thought that skills such as time management, budgeting and negotiating in children's arguments were something only SAHM develop, whereas in reality they are applicable to all parents (and indeed people who aren't parents too)
b)believed that that these skills in themself were relevant to job interviews.

Jeez little, 'it is a very basic interview skill that you "sell" yourself' - you don't say??? Is using correct grammar a basic requirement to?

A basic requirement to what, goldenbear? You seem to have left the end off that sentence

janey Yes, I agree.

There's really no good reason why a parent of either sex who takes time out when their children are young should be blighted in terms of finance and prospects for the rest of their working lives. As a society we haven't integrated family life at all into the "normal" work pattern, despite decades of growing numbers of women in work.

Taking time out to care for young children is obviously going to affect earnings for that period of time, but it shouldn't blight opportunities, earnings and pensions for an entire lifetime.

olgag you are completely right. Anyone who goes for a job has to present themselves in a way that persuades an employer they have the skills and experience relevant to the role, no matter what their employment history is! Your comment was very perceptive.

Goldenbear Out of interest how long have you been contracting? I think some of us (employers) with ignorant attitudes would be interested in hearing your in-depth, qualified and experienced insight into the business environment. You have lambasted us for our honesty but you still give no alternatives or solutions! How do we become Enlightened, progressive employers can well see the competitive advantage of employing a diverse workforce and that includes people who have a SAH background.? I am sure there are a number of people on here with the decision making ability to change protocol in their organisations so please share how you think this should happen? I would be interested in hearing how this has worked at the numerous contracting positions you have held for the wealthy private/corporate investors.

With the current trading climate, recruitment is an employers market. I remember a time when we used to give large financial lump sum bonuses as a sign on fee to get talented people to move but we rarely do that now. We have businesses going into administration, large numbers of redundancies, talented individuals keen to progress already in the business and new graduates entrants in the market. It?s a hard market and everyone wants the strongest candidates. It's just how it is.

So, why are some people listing out skills and saying that their time with their children indicates a skill that the employers are looking for. If it was working we wouldnt be having this debate.

Golden Bear doesnt work. She has had people asking her to freelance. She has turned them all down to be a SAHM.

Golden - we clearly have it all wrong in your view. The recruiting process is flawed and we need to give SAMP's looking to get back into the marketplace priority.

Well, if you are so qualified and experienced. Get back into the market and help us out. Its blooming difficult to get a job these days even internally!

Goldenbear,

Why don't you take on some of the freelance work, out of interest? I agree that freelance/contract work is highly paid and highly flexible. Surely you could ask for as few hours as would suit you?

Littlechickpea, if you had read my responses you would see that I turned down the offer of contract work as I am currently working as a SAHP. That is what I have decided to do, I want to be at home with my DC full time at the moment. Is attention to detail something that is important in your line of work?

If the statistic mentioned on this thread is true and only 8% of women earn over £40,000 then I doubt very much that many posters on here would have the influence to change things in the workplace. By the sounds of it they have no desire to do so anyway, if anything it appears to be the opposite- I.e they will make things harder for SAHMs returning to work because they cannot empathise with their decision to stay at home with young children.

I am qualified in the area of HR, as I said previously I have Graduate CIPD status but that's alongside working in a very prestigious organisation prior to SAH. You would have to pay me for the answers you want and as I said before I'm currently not working in that capacity.

To be fair, goldenbear did answer that earlier and said that she turned the work down because she didn't want to compromise being a SAHM.

It would be good if she would come back and answer the other questions though...

REcruitment is so expensive - not just the advertising costs but the time you spendinterviewig and setting up inductions + training in our own systems. You cannot aford to make a mistake, you appoint the best candidate and in most cases that is someone alread doing well in a similar job. For us that usually means someone doing a near identical job for a quality company who has been made redundant. We have interview case scenarios that are geared to showing who will do well and who won't and a practical test where the results are sometimes quite surprising. Our admin jobs are always part time so quite suited to working mothers, but the times we require are quite specific and not negotiable for operational reasons.

Our last two recruits were one married but childless person and one married with a 3 year old. Neither of them gave me any indication about their personal circumstances until they were in post. I have found that the people who are returning to work tend to lack confidence, and to be slower and perform less well in the practical test. They also often try to negotiate the hours early in the interview to suit their own requirements, even when we have clearly indcated they are not negotiable.

Maisie, I didn't say that I have been offered lots of contract work I said I have been offered freelance work.

oops cross posts there.

The comment about attention to detail is hilarious though.... goldenbear seems quite incapable of reading what we're actually writing, and insists that all recruiters have some kind of weird vendetta against SAHM and are plotting how to thwart their return to the workplace. Er nope, I have far more important things to worry about than that.

And as for the earlier post, Goldenbear Thu 28-Mar-13 10:19:50, which sarcastically asked another poster whether using correct grammar is important in job applications .... as her own post did not actually make sense, well, words fail me...

Golden Bear - that is very selfish of you! There are people on this thread clearly struggling with returning to work. You on the other hand seem to have stacks of qualifications, and companies queueing up to use your skills (which you turn down!).

And why do you keep mentioning wealth, very prestigious, I dont choose to work etc. Lucky you but there are others on here really struggling to get roles.

I would also be very careful with an attitude like yours. If you come across at interviews as you come across in posts then any interviews you have wont last very long!!

IME, enlightened, flexible employers are only too happy to employ SAHPs as freelancers.

IME, the right (best) freelancers can demand as few hours as they wish, because their employers are chomping at the bit for them to get hold of them.

I don't personally agree that working a couple of hours a week/month, in the evening or whatever, compromises being at home with the DC. In fact I feel it secures the best of both worlds. I feel it has to be the way forward for parents of both genders in many industries. Sure, you'll be a little tired. But aren't we all tired, all of us, all of the time, even before we had DC?

Fair enough if that's simply what you don't want to do. But the odd bit of freelancing just seems like a fairly lucrative AND low-key way to ensure that you don't run into the type of interview problems described upthread whenever you do eventually want to go back to working full-time.

I think that your personal choices and opinions are going to influence your recruitment decisions. Many people on this thread have demonstrated that bias- it is as simple as that. No great conspiracy, just blatant prejudice!

Well if it's as simple as that, you might be able to actually provide the evidence...

Goldenbear So you don't have any contracting/freelancing experience? You haven't done any work with private investors and you have no specific examples of how we should improve our procedures. You have simply been offered some contracting/freelancing work.. Ahhhh I see!

I am qualified in the area of HR, as I said previously I have Graduate CIPD status but that's alongside working in a very prestigious organisation prior to SAH. You would have to pay me for the answers you want and as I said before I'm currently not working in that capacity.

I suspected I wouldn't get an answer because this seems to be an emerging pattern... You say something with no substance/foundation when asked for detail...... Don't answer. We have a dedicated HR division headed up by an HR Partner with experience in several global industries so I don't think I will be bringing you on as a contractor/freelancer. Although it sounds like you could bring us into the new centaury and teach our HR Partner a few new tricks.. I will mention it to her (full time working mum btw)

I'd missed that bit earlier about having to pay goldenbear for her answers (obviously my attention to detail must be sadly lacking too!!) - that is absolutely hilarious. Reminds me of the junior school playground: 'It's top secret, you'll have to pay me to get the answer!!'

Its not simple tbh. What some on this thread want to do is make a choice to stay at home, their previous work skills will need refreshing - of course they will (!) but they dont necessarily recognise this.

They then try and get back into the workplace after x years and find they are effectively locked out. This isnt a secret, most of us know it will be more difficult to get a role hence the reason for more highly paid positions we dont leave at all!

Have your choice by all means but dont necessarily expect things to be the same.

Unless of course you have companies queuing up for those skills regardless of the fact you have not been working for say 5 years. How does that work btw?

Around here (SE) the supermarkets will take term time only working and fit in with school hours, they cannot get enough applicants otherwise but this is a wealthy area and consequently they have found they need to do this but this is very unusual.

Large corporates have no such issue and roles paying over £40k have NO need to do this at all...