To be frustrated and angry that women are still expected to be the "emotion keepers" in families.

[seeker]

And if we don't stop doing it, our daughters will still be thinking they are responsible for "keeping men sweet" in 30 years time?

BoneyBackJefferson, I know what you mean about agressive customers. But it's not totally our situation as, erm, in our line of work we've got exactly the same customers and they are with us for a long term. I don't really want to give out what our profession is, otherwise I would have provided more detail. I do, however, get a definite sense that men and women in our workplace (I don't want to generalise, haven't got enough evidence) may experience the same workplace in different ways and manage workplace relationships in different ways. I can see how it is more challenging for my DH to navigate it. And I am willing to talk about it, just not every bloody night. I also would like to talk about in a constructive and not "just bitching" way, ifywim. I like to analyse, not bitch.

exoticfruits, what is this "real problem" that I must tackle?

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is not to discuss my personal problems, but to talk about emotional work that is expected of women by society. The situation that I described is just a small example of such emotional work.

And I disagree with your point re emotional work expected by society. It is not something that I have ever encountered - ever.

The problem is listening to the moans which you think are just 'everyday life' - get him to stop - by communicating.

It isn't the sort of emotional 'work' I would do. Sounds as if he needs to do something constructive and change the job.

Autumn do you like your dh,your posts about him drip contempt
There seems to be a resentment you master on,whilst he bitches
Eyerolling isn't a text book couples empathy technique

Either it is just a habit that he does without thinking and he generally likes the job or he doesn't like the job. By sitting down and discussing it you would find out, and if it is the second you could discuss where to go next. If it is merely habit it can be changed.

scottishmummy, you are making some massive assumptions about people you know nothing about.

Also, this is a quote from your earlier post: "And some women skivvy about like blue arsed flies,then moan so hard done to Ok,so stop buying your dp pants,if there a party due do let dp buy and wrap a present Some of the posts of long lists of inane tasks on mn, read and think no sympathy you're got busy bum". Here you are criticising women for performing the emotional work and excluding the men from it. However, when faced with a woman who openly refused to perform pointless emotional work (i.e. me) you criticise her for not being caring enough. To me, this is a classic attempt (perhaps not conscious, but rather driven by general culture) to shut women up and keep them in their place - they just can't do anything right. Ever.

countrykitten, I have never been to Australia, but I am pretty sure it is down there somewhere.

exoticfruits, thank you, I really feel you mean well, but, really, trust me, I have done and do so much talking, I could qualify as a shrink. There comes a point when talking is a bit like feeding a troll, and eye-rolling actually works best as it diffuses the situation and makes DH realise that he is talking a load of bollocks.

And again, please note that the example I brought to this discussion is a small one. The amount of emotional work that I perform with my DH is tiny-tiny peanuts in comparison with what many women do (ASDA Christmas advert). Definitely with what my mother and grandmother had to perform.

"And I disagree with your point re emotional work expected by society. It is not something that I have ever encountered - ever."

Asda Christmas advert, anyone?

Oops- cross post!

Completely agree.

Although its possible to argue that this doesn't occur in your family, I think it's far fetched to argue that this isn't a cultural expectation.

Absolutely re: Xmas ads.

But some women just like doing Christmas! Threads start here in August with every aspect. When I have said 'Good God-it is August!!' I have been told to go away!
I can just imagine what would happen if the man came home with (the very odd MN phenomenon) the 'Christmas pyjamas' and said 'you don't need to think about it-it is done'! And yet I bet the mother doesn't expect to involve him. There would be hell to pay-they would be bound to be wrong and he would have taken away her 'pleasure'. Likewise if he took a lot of the other things upon himself.
Personally I would be thrilled-but I am not 'all' women-there is no such thing as 'all' women.

The amount of emotional work that I perform with my DH is tiny-tiny peanuts in comparison with what many women do (ASDA Christmas advert). Definitely with what my mother and grandmother had to perform.

Maybe this is the mistake. My mother and grandmother didn't perform any and so I don't see why I would. DCs do what you do -not what you say you should do. I can't imagine why seeker thinks her perfectly intelligent DD, with seeker as a mother, would start doing it-or why she then has to patronisingly think that the rest of are getting it 'wrong'.
Live your life without 'rolling your eyes' at your DP and the children will follow your example.

Christmas is a consumer-fest designed to encourage women to spend wastefully on the false premise that they are taking good care of their families by doing so. Men are dimwitted enough to fall for the con!

Are not dimwitted..

"Although its possible to argue that this doesn't occur in your family, I think it's far fetched to argue that this isn't a cultural expectation."

This. Why do people always say "well, I don,t do this- therefore my experience must be the norm?"

I find it very interesting that some women are so very unwilling to see any gender inequality. Why is that exactly? It can't be ignorance- I'm talking educated, thinking women. So there must be some other reason. For the Margaret Thatchers of the world, it was "well, I made it, so if you don't it's your own fault" Maybe for some it's not waiting to rock the boat. Some may genuinely think, in the face of the evidence, that all the feminist battles have been won. There might be a few who like the inequality, and don't want to upset men. Some must see it, but haven't got the energy for the fight. It's interesting- but depressing. Hard fought for ground can so easily lost......

I find it frightening when I see how my nephew is treated tbh. He is at uni several hundred miles away and his Dad (not Mum!) is driving down, stripping his bed, making him a fresh one, taking his clothes to the launderette for him
driving him home if need be
driving him back
generally treating him like a 20 yr old baby

Then they all go on about how clever he is, arf!

But honestly with boys being brought up like that, lets hope he stays single

and my MIL goes on about what he eats and then says 'but there are two girls there and they cook all the meals, the boys just give them the money' and I wonder what has changed. I would never have dreamt of cooking dinner for my male uni mates every night and that being an expectation of me. Weirdly her son has never expected it it either, but my MIL is one of these 'I don't know why he left her, she always kept a tidy house' types. i think she most probably despairs at me

Why do people always say "well, I don,t do this- therefore my experience must be the norm

That seems to be happening on both sides of the argument though, doesn't it Seeker? You are saying what happens in some marriages and talking about what you have read in the relationship forum.
I am a placid person married to a very emotional woman. She can be hard work sometimes. I am often treading on eggshells with her. As it happens I love her to bits and her bad points are far outweighed by her good points. I would agree though that there are a lot of women (and some men) in unhealthy relationships. I applaud the encouragement that women on these forums give to other women not to put up with damaging relationships. To make out that this is the norm doesn't correspond with my experience. Not in my relationship or of those around me.

Correction Seeker. You are not talking about what is happening in the relationship forum but there is a lot of assumptions being made that because it happens in some relationships then it is the norm.

Did no one read the links given by posters earlier?

here

and here

Since has this become this a thread about domestic violence?

Or about what happens on relationship threads?

What I am talking about is the perception in the media, in the world at large as well as on here, that women are expected to be the appeasers and peace keepers. That women traditionally and continuingly take on themselves add are apportioned a disproportionally large %age of the blame for relationship breakdown, for issues with children.....I find it extraordinary that anyone would question that this is true.

I think a lot of it comes down to the personality of those involved. There are a lot of put upon wives out their. There are also a lot of men who are actually quite scared of upsetting their wives and act accordingly. In a healthy marriage like mine we both try our best to keep each other happy. Neither of us is perfect. I've learnt though what upsets my wife and do my best to shield her from the things that do.

inde, I hear what you are saying. And I completely agree with you that there are a lot of men out there treading on eggshells around their volatile and temperamental and downright explosive wives. I also agree with some posters here that domestic violence against men is a hidden issue in our society that certainly deserves attention.

However, by and large, the "emotional work" that we are talking about there is the province of women. The media presents women as having the primary responsibility for the emotional well-being of family members - for the dinners around the table in the evening, for holidays, for listening to children, for organising children's activities, for managing the social life of the family, for keeping GP appointments. Women's magazines are full of articles on cookery, holiday-organising, and "how to make him happy in bed." Our civilization is yet to see men overtaking women in the readership of "House Beautiful." We are yet to see a Christmas advert where it is the man and not the woman who is running around like the energiser bunny while his wife asks "what's for dinner?" I just compared the online editions of the Cosmopolitan and Maxim magazines. Both have relationship sections. The former has a section titled "Love and Sex" and the latter "Girls". So a women's magazine presents men as objects of love, of emotional engagement, while a men's magazine presents women as just objects (cue the recent publicised interview with an editor of a men's magazine openly admitting that women in his publications are "decorative"). And don't even start me on the countless men's blogs about how South-East Asian women are soooo much better than European ones as they are much more loyal, submissive, uncritical, and supportive. I am yet to see a female blog praising the ego-stroking skills of mail-order grooms from Vietnam.

So yes, there is physical, emotional and even financial domestic violence against men. But it does not mean that we should stop discussing women. Male and female identities are constructed very differently in our society, so it is worth talking about this difference.

I also highly recommend that you read "Wifework".