To ask for one, simple, summary about all the angry SAHM threads.

[catinboots]

Pleaseeee??

I haven't read them all - but there seem to be lots of SAHMs on here today, moaning that they won't eat help with child are costs.

Eh?

Have I missed some key piece of information? Have a got it wrong?

Surely the whole point of being a SAHP is so that you don't need childcare?..

Partridge if you feel undervalued then whatever anyone else says will not
change anything - its how YOU feel about the role that matters.

So what would you like us to do? - if we say yes its tough then we are undermining the SAHP role .If we say its marvellous we are not appreciating how tough role the SAHP is
I have btw done both SAHP and WOHP roles - both have their good/bad points but I didnt feel I had to make others responsible for my feelings.

frilly as you yourself said, this new tax break is not a benefit. It's a tax break... Less tax for those schools and hopitals and for housing benefit or those that need it.

I repeat, why should my family (very well off on a combined income of around £100k - I am self employed and do have my own small income and pay my own NI contributions), pay for a tax break for a family earning £300k? That makes no sense. If our child benefit is withdrawn on household income, tax credits should be too.

"When I worked hard I got appraised fairly by that boss and was rewarded for my skills"

For every working person who says this, there will be many more who say that they don't get appraised or rewarded fairly by their boss. Particularly in the case of a working parent, I would say that rather than feeling valued and fairly rewarded by a boss, it's more likely that the following will arise:

• feeling others look down on you for coming in late after school drop-off, or leaving early to do school pick-up
• others chastising you for having an unpaid "day off" if you work part time
• being treated unfairly as a part time worker
• being given a full time job on part time hours
• being overlooked for reward/promotion because you have children

etc etc etc etc.

To be honest, in this economic climate, the biggest "reward" you get is not being next in line for the cull to save costs.

So that "reward" you assume you'd get as a wohm is often no reward at all other than purely financial. Don't feel that you'd somehow be more valued for having a paid job. It's more likely you'd feel you don't do anything particularly well because you're so stretched as a working parent.

Partridge, having read your many posts, I think a key aspect of your discontent relates to the lack of acknowledgement that you have skills you don't use (i.e. work related ones that you don't need to use as a sahm). Sorry, but no-one is going to recognise you for this. Any more than anyone will recognise me for skills I don't use, whether at home or in my job. If you want recognition for skills you have, then use them. That doesn't have to be via paid employment. Be creative. Your mention of drudgery and self esteem makes me think your lifestyle is having an impact on your mental health. You need to do something about this - but that something should not include expecting other busy parents to validate your choices in life

Surely though if the government can encourage more people to stay in or enter the workplace after having children the tax the receive will more than outweigh the cost of the tax break. Personally I think childcare shod be state run and not for profit.

I think you make a lot of valid points allnew.
It's easy to think the grass is greener. When you're not working, you focus on the paypacket, and lovely appraisals from the boss, but of course the reality is that some people work for bosses who aren't always fair or reasonable. And even in the best workplaces, no one pays you a wage for sitting at your desk doing bugger all- particularly in this economic climate. I do a lot of interesting things in my job, but it would be daft to pretend its all easy. Meetings can be tough and sometimes confrontational, managing a team and keeping them all motivated and happy isnt always easy, and when I do presentations- well, they don't just write themselves. And doing all this and then coming home to the dinner, the laundry and sometimes fractious children isn't a picnic either.

Basically the fact is, life isn't easy! And once you have children thrown into the mix the whole extra role of parenting is added in.

frilly I totally agree with you. What I object to really is not supporting working parents, it's using taxpayer's money to prop up creaking capitalist corporations. This government seems intent on using our money to bail out failing banks (bad enough) but also siphoning off tax revenues to private childcare, and to support employers who are just not paying their employees a living wage.

State run nurseries for all would be a really good way of starting to address this.

YY totally agree about state run nursery provision

Works in France. Why not here?

Instead of turning on each other we should be making a stand and saying this is not good enough. Childcare does not cease at 5 so they need to be clear on when it will roll out for older children. They also need to look at why being a childcare provider is a minimum wage job and many have such a high turnover. Private nursery are run for profit. With a non profit nursery they can nurture and invest in their staff. Until we can all see that looking after children as a career is important there will never be any respect for SAHMs. I can't help but think this new policy is a way of sidelining us from the awful plans to raise ratios.

What on earth is Partridge whining about!

We all have different experiences, some have children close in age together, some work part time, some work full time, some have rich partners, some dont but the childcare is too expensive for them to go to back to work...

To indicate that no one apart from Partridge knows what it is like as a SAHM is plain daft. Maybe she isnt strict enough with her children, mayber her partner isnt helping enough.

I work to pay the school fees, no everyone's choice but MINE and it suits us. I wouldnt dream of dictating to anyone how many children to have, whether to be strict or liberal with them and all allow them to run riot.

We all need to find the thing that works right out for our PERSONAL circumstances and there are plenty of SAMP's listing out their tasks.

Bit boring to be honest as they are EXACTLY the same as mine.

everything *allnewtaketwo" said. plus don't forget the scathing criticism we get from some sahms segments of society for not 'bringing up our children ourselves'...

and yet feeling 'undervalued' is not a good reason to give anyone benefits. christ if it was I think the first people to get more should be all the pensioners who fought in ww2 etc and are currently living on a pittance. and the carers of disabled people etc etc. The reason for giving a tax break for child care is surely economic - e.g. my employer and the goverment have spent a small fortune training me up, it would seem a massive shame if I had to stop purely because I couldn't afford to go to work...

I felt undervalued, because I was busting a gut trying to fit a full time professional job into part time hours, whilst looking after DS who has some complex additional medical needs, with DH often out of the country for long stretches and all our family over 200 miles away. BUT it was DH I expected to step up and give me a rest / hug/ praise sometimes.

To be fair Frilly I thought that this was a fairly civilised thread without the usual nastiness.
One thing occurs to me : maybe if SAHPing wasnt always described as not being respected then it would be. Odd I know but in RL I havent met anyone who say its not respected. Yes on here the usual culprits come along and start a bunfight and but most posters have done a bit of both.

It was flipping hard work wrangling a new born and a toddler but I didnt feel a lack of respect from anyone- they liked having a cuddle but were happy to had them back sharpish when they got a bit grumpy
Parenting is hard,fun,bloody boring sometimes and sometimes so wonderful it takes your breath away.
Why dont we refer to it as that - parenting however we do it.?
Love,peace etc

Agree totally anotheryearolder

Tbh the thread went a bit like this:

'I feel worthless and undervalued as a SAHM. It's hard work being at home with young children'

'You shouldn't feel worthless. Yes being at home with little ones is tough- we've all been there on ML, part time working, or combining full time Work with parenting'

'Don't patronise me! And no one can else can possibly know what it's like except me'

Most bizarre.

anotheryearolder I agree too.

I feel a bit for Partridge tbh - hope you are ok if you are reading this.

Partridge I have had days when I wanted to screaaaaaaaaaam it was so crap(usually when ill -chicken pox followed by norovirus followed by chickenpox followed by norovirus then I got it -springs to mind). We were in the house for about 5 weeks !!!!
I hope you can get some RL support - looking after little ones full time is very hard work.

If being a SAHP for years is so soul destroying, is it really best for DCs?

Its not always though Faster
I had some bloody brilliant times
but if you have no choice,no money,are struggling for whatever reason then its hard. Sometimes its just hard for no other reason than looking after little children is hard work.
but then so is bringing up little children and going to work on no sleep .

Agree- that's been my point throughout the thread really. Every situation has its ups and downs; there are pressure points in everyones life.

Yep- we all have completely different circumstances and ways of living.

Right off to wrestle the last bit of cheesecake off DS !

oh - I wasn't saying that was always the case - I am supposed to be working so not explaining very well.

if person A likes being a SAHP fine. but if person B finds it soul destroying, is it really best for person B's DCs?

Actually I am fine thanks. And quite like my life. Nice of you to ask though.

I think I became so embroiled in the debate that I have lost my own train of thought. I do not want anyone patting me on the back. This all stemmed from the very fucking annoying comment that Cameron made about supporting those who want to "work hard and get on." It would be helpful to remember that this was what pissed me off and drew me to this thread.

We then got bogged down in ridiculous semantics about the notion of value and yes, I felt that particularly Janey was very patronising.

I love being with my kids and they are happy and fulfilled. If you read my earlier posts you will see that 2 whole days and 2 evenings a week I volunteer which brings me personal fulfilment. I do not work because it is not financially viable at the moment. I miss getting outside affirmation that I am a person of value. I hoped that some wohp might find it in themselves to empathise with this statement. There is a tradition of some people in society, some people in government and some people on mumsnet denigrating the life of the sahp. This can also go the other way for wohp.

I hope I have cleared up some misconceptions about myself being whiney and incredibly needy wanting strangers on mumsnet to tell me I am great. That was not my point at all. I was asking for some understanding that the roles, rewards and challenges of being a wohp and sahp are different. I fail to see what is so revolutionary and controversial about that. I have great admiration for wohp but their lives and frustrations are different to mine.

Glad you are ok Partridge great post.

Thanks anotheryear. That is the kind of understanding I was hoping for.

back at ya!

SAHP aside.

How does everyone feel about the fact that the low earning, part timer (almost certainly a woman) juggling kids/childcare etc and bringing in just under 10k doesn't get the vouchers?

Whilst, the family with two adults earning just under 150k each gets the vouchers?