To ask for one, simple, summary about all the angry SAHM threads.

[catinboots]

Pleaseeee??

I haven't read them all - but there seem to be lots of SAHMs on here today, moaning that they won't eat help with child are costs.

Eh?

Have I missed some key piece of information? Have a got it wrong?

Surely the whole point of being a SAHP is so that you don't need childcare?..

And this assumption that just because I am a sahp I don't need to feel valued is absurd. You cannot possibly imagine how it feels if you are a wohp (and maternity leave doesn't count).

It is the human condition to want appreciation and yes that does go beyond the immediate family.

I disagree that it's a different type of parenting. I think there is (generalising I know ) good parenting and poor parenting, and they have nothing to do with whether you work or not.
If you are a SAHP then obviously your day to day routine is different but thats not the same as parenting.
And actually, there are so many variable that it becomes a bit pointless to make a black and white distinction- I mean, my routine on work days as a mum to pre-schoolers was drop off at nursery at 7.45, but for a shift worker, it might be spending half the day at home with kids and then going off to work. There are many different routines for both WOHP and SAHP
The key thing that comes out of this though is that parenting is hard, or rather good parenting is hard, and this shouldn't be a WOHM/SAHM divide, but a recognition that all mums and dads who do their best at parenting are valuable

I would say most wohm have got a good grasp of what it's like being with a small child all day as opposed to in the office. I used to work part time so I have direct experience of what a day with small child was like v the office. Of course it's different. In my own experience, the day was equally tiring but much less hectic. No less busy of course, but I had direct control over the run of my own day. And much more down time. Much much easier in the evenings because I had the odd 5 mins or so during the day to put the washing machine on, dishwasher etc etc etc. So I ended up doing no housework virtually in the evenings at all. As a wohm I run around like a crazy thing doing these tasks in the time after my child goes to bed, before I can even think about doing anything else.

Just my own experience.

Good grief, that is probably the only time I would want to be a SAHP by choice! :)

Yes, I worked 3 days a week when my children were pre schoolers so I know exactly what days with young children are like too.
Also, most women seem to take a year off on ML now (i took much less with mine) so its fair to say they have a clear idea of what it's like being home with children

It is not the same working part time. For all the reasons of drudgery, self esteem and relentlessness that I have outlined below. But you are clearly not interested in empathy so I give up.

Although thanks for at least trying to empathise with the less tangible things than "time to put on the dishwasher" that I am trying to explain impecunious

No-one said it's the same as working part time, I said most wohp do indeed know what it's like to be with a small child as opposed to the office.

If you find it such drudgery, damaging to your self esteem and relentness then perhaps you should be looking to change it rather than look for validation from others. I find the work/home spinning plates role relentless do, but I'm really not going to be looking to other people for empathy or validation for it. I'm actually mnetting now in between working this morning and this afternoon because I had to leave the office in the middle of something to pick my child up from school on Friday. When he gets home in an hour with his dad I will stop working and spend the afternoon with him. Then I'll put him to bed and start working again. In between laundry, making up beds etc etc. So you may say I'm "not interested in empathy", but in reality I'm just another busy mother (but one who's not looking for validation from society/other busy mothers for my choices in life)

Feel like we making progress and reaching some concensus here

Partridge a lot of what you said resonated with me its isolating being at home.

When I compare eldest when I worked.

yes it was hard juggling shifts.
we did split the housework both ways.
was mostly me who got up in the night or picked up from nursery when sick.

I wasent upset about her being in nursery she loves it they did so much to occupy here. End of each term would get parents evenings, observations and other stuff so could see as precious first born developementally she was on track.

Now being at home with younger 2 3.5 and &nearly 2 im always trying to occupy their time.

Today a sunday but hubbys working and youngest has spent nearly 2hours crying.

The older 2girls arguing.

Worried as little boys not speaking and girls were by now.

worry not middle childs missed school year she be bored as lots of her freinds start school in sepeptember.

This easter have to do extra with eldest as shes little bit behind ended up having to move her primary before christmas.

I find being a sahm more stressful than work on a good day.

in work you constantly appraised with reveiws.
you can go loo by yourself
have a lunch break.

I do wonder if maybe I was better parent when I worked as the break made me feel refreshed and appreciated the time with eldest and possibly had more patiance.

I dont feel any less or more busy.

As everyone points out the same things still need to be done.

but when i worked was equal share.

I know working mums who have cleaner and send ironing out I dont blame them.

Im not the worlds best housewife.

its demoralising to clean only for the kids to then trash it.
if they at nursery then they come home have snack, bath and bed.
when they in bed I run round like mad person trying to get downstairs least tidy and tea on table for when husband gets home.

He does expect me being at home

to ensure we have food.
do some cleaning
and some childcare.

As we have limited income we dont far or on too many expensive trips like the zoo which is extortionate.
A lot of where we go is weather dependent and its rained a lot.

I cant remember last time when to hairdressers.
its seldom I go coffee shop.

I think its more the if only 1parent pays tax then we scroungers despite not getting any other benefit other than child benefit.

Or the if you dont work and pay tax then you not contributing-sweeping statement when many I know do volunteer work.

This disciminates against low paid part time mums too.

found this in guardian

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/24/childcare-budget-george-osborne-work-pay?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Im all for working parents getting some help but target it fairer.
if 60k too much for child benefit then surly its too much for childcare subsidy.

But at same time the very low paid we paying more in childcare for their kids than tax they contributing seems bit mad too.

Partridge- I'm afraid it is you who is coming across as intent on driving a wedge between WOHM and SAHM.

If I were to post saying SAHM don't have a clue about the workplace, I expect I would (rightly) be shouted down by lots of them, telling me I was being insulting and that theyve had good careers, or still do freelance work at weekends etc. Yet you seem to feel its acceptable to tell millions of working mums and dads that they don't know what the pressures of bringing up children and running a home is like!

I have had two periods of maternity leave, I've worked part time and ive worked full time. I know perfectly well what days at home with pre schoolers (specially when it's pissing down!) are like. Equally I know what the 7.45 am nursery run (specially when it's pissing down!) followed by a day at work are like.

I'm sorry you feel unappreciated for what you do, but ultimately it's your choice to be a SAHP (you mentioned it was a choice). I think you should feel valued as a loving and caring parent (as should all of us) and not seek approbation by trying to tell working parents that we don't know how hard you have it. ITS NOT A COMPETITION.

My problem is this: I have worked hard and paid my taxes for nearly 20 years. I have since taken time out to look after my kids and no, I don't need validation for that. I know people think I'm a SAHM saddo but I don't give a fuck. I had a brilliant career and loved every minute of it and I make no apologies for deciding I wanted to do something else. I don't expect any one else to support me and they don't.

You, as a WOH parent, have decided for whatever reason, that you would prefer to put your kids into childcare and go back to paid work. Good for you. But why should I and my family pay for that choice? You don't subsidise our lifestyle. Why must I subsidise yours?

You are the one making it a competition and perpetuating the idea that sahp don't deserve to be appreciated. And sorry - but spending 5 years as a sahp is different to mat leav and p/t work.

Being a sahp is the right choice for my family for many reasons. I'd love it a whole lot more if people like you didn't patronise sahp quite so much. The whole tone of your posting is pretty condescending. You have been at home with pre-schoolers and thus must have lived exactly my experience - but you also wohm so feel entitled to judge on that front as well. I have never felt particularly passionate about this before but something in your tone, Janey, is superior.

All I have ever asked for is some understanding and kindness. A recognition that it can be tough to shelve your career and lose your status in the wider world. The fact that you find this so very hard to acknowledge says more about you than me I think.

You don't subsidise mine Special
We've always paid for childcare out of our faxed earnings

I think though, you're talking about a much wider argument. Why should childless people pay for schools? Why should someone who has never been in hospital all their life and has a cheap home birth pay for hospital care for others?
The welfare system doesn't operate by only paying for exactly what you as an individual make use of

Your attitude is a microcosm of the wider world. Sahp are patronised. I guess I have to just suck it up judging by your posts.

Partridge - why is your need so high for janey to acknowledge what you have given up and that you work hard? These are your choices, why do you need janey to acknowledge them? Or need me to empathise with you? In asking for these things, your're inherently assuming that you "deserve" something from us. Well you don't, any more than we "deserve" anything from you

Oh partridge you're being ridiculous now. I guess resorting to someones 'tone' is a cheap shot when you can't find any evidence of anything remotely patronising in what they say

I repeat (again!) you should feel valued for the choices youve made. And if you feel that's patronising then sorry, but it's pretty difficult to please someone who asks to be valued and then moans when someone acknowledges that

You are absolutely determined to feel hard done by as SAHP which I think is a shame, as it's something you've chosen. If it wasn't through choice but financial necessity I would understand it a little more, but you seem to grind on about how isolating and relentless your days are. Clearly you feel it's the better option at the moment than working, so why not concentrate on the positives?

I have never said its a competition -quite the opposite. And yeap, I do know what being at home with pre schoolers is like- I did it for 5 years when I worked part time. And no, working part time is not EXACTLY the same as not working at all, but frankly, even if I'd been a SAHM full time, my experience wouldn't be EXACTLY the same as yours or indeed anyone else's, because guess what, our children are all individuals and they all come with their own unique ups and downs.

Allnew- exactly! I suggested we ALL have a medal for doing our best at this tough parenting lark, but apparently that wasn't good enough

Because calling me ridiculous isn't at all patronising. I love your moral superiority.

By working part time you are getting a salary and being evaluated by a boss. Which was my original point. Ad I don't work because it is not financially viable. But yes I did choose to have 3 kids so I suppose it is my choice in a way.

Where does this attitude of paying for people's lifestyle come from? I've never told a SAHM that I'm paying for her pension whilst also paying towards my own, I've never told a person claiming housing benefit that I'm paying for her house, I've never told someone on job seekers allowance that I'm paying for them to job seek. We all pay in and we all get from it in some way or another. This child care 'benefit' is a tax break. There are many of them and some apply to you and some don't, but if you aren't paying tax then none apply.

"By working part time you are getting a salary and being evaluated by a boss"

So the "salary" coming from an unrelated 3rd party (employer) as opposed to the shared salary from your life partner, makes it feel like more of a validation. Really? . You feel like being given a year end appraisal by a boss (who you may or may not feel is nice, or a complete arse without a clue) is more validating than acknowledgment and value by your chosen life partner. Really?

Partridge that chip on your shoulder must be weighty

Look- if I agree with you and say 'yeap SAHM have the hardest job in the world. None of us can possibly know what it's like (even though we've all had babies and many of us worked part time when the kids were small) and frankly being a WOHM is a breeze because the fairies get the kids up and off to nursery and do the housework, and well, being at work is a right doddle, employers are queuing up to dole out wages for doing sod- all these days.... I mean, it's not actually going to make you feel any better is it? You'll just accuse me of being patronising

You are the one who feels undervalued and isolated. It doesn't matter how many people tell you quite truthfully that they don't look down on SAHM. It doesnt matter how many times we say its not a competition. You are determined to tell us that you know what we think better than we
do!
I (genuinely and non patronisingly) feel sorry that you don't feel valued in your chosen role. But attacking the rest of us really won't help you feel better.

And as that post which crossed with mine partridge- yes, by working a WOHP gets a salary and recognition from their boss for the WORKING ASPECT of their life. Their boss doesn't give them a pat on the back for everything they do as a parent and for the housework!

When I worked hard I got appraised fairly by that boss and was rewarded for my skills. My husband loves me and is appreciative but he is not evaluating my skills beyond parenting and housekeeping.

But frankly this is now coming down to semantics. Janey you are patronising - not least - ho ho - talking about the weighty chip on my shoulder.

Women get vilified for whatever choices they make - this is well documented. I am not saying being a wohp is easier than being a sahm. I think it must be very tough. I wouldn't want to do it. But your patronising tone and utter refusal to empathise with me is frankly quite weird. Goodbye.

Nope, not being patronising and frankly quite a few of us have shown empathy but it hasn't been welcome!
Goodbye.