To ask for one, simple, summary about all the angry SAHM threads.

[catinboots]

Pleaseeee??

I haven't read them all - but there seem to be lots of SAHMs on here today, moaning that they won't eat help with child are costs.

Eh?

Have I missed some key piece of information? Have a got it wrong?

Surely the whole point of being a SAHP is so that you don't need childcare?..

God this threads doom and gloom

whats point earning extra paying more tax and saving.?If its so bad,

reckon retirement age be 70by time im old.

I must worry about hubby running off and having an affair and leaving me with nothing.

My mum did fincaially very well fro her divorce.

most people get married have kids and hope for the best.

we all make specific choices that suit our families.

janey

I know, as a none tax payer they were growing quite nicely but when the base rate and interest fell I invested in other areas.

Your Mum probably did well because your father was a high earner. My DM didnt and she worked. We didnt have a great deal of money. Why would we - they were seperate parents trying to run two households.

What I am saying is that we dont want to go back to the 1950's where literally women waited for their DH to come home having not forgotten to tie a ribbon in her hair and not bothering him about her issues that day!

There is a brilliant article somewhere about how mothers in the 50's and 60's need to prepare themselves for the return of the DH's!!

Your mum must have been the exception then- most women end up worse off.
I entirely agree though that life should be about positivity and hope
Thats why many of us are a little bemused by the whole premise of the threads that are abounding at the moment. There seem to be a lot of SAHM who tell us they love being home, they dont want to work, but they are moaning that they want some recognition (though when pushed they can't specify what!) and they also seem to want free childcare (even though they keep telling us how awful nurseries are!)
It's most bizarre!

*Maisiejoe8

I can assure you we agree on the point that this is not the way forward for anybody, and can assure you I have never behaved like the 50's/ 60's housewife, even in my worst nightmare

I'll admit to having a periodic wobble about having all my eggs in one basket. However, life can turn to shit no matter what you do. Having a career is no guarantee that you will always he financially safe. I'm not sure people can make life choices based on worry about the worst possible scenarios.

And I have stated, when asked, what I would like to have happen as 'recognition'.

I personally think whats happending in uk is barmy and hope I dont come accross bit daily mailish here.

we live a a civilised country and have a decent welfare state if you compare it to usa .

The welfare state was meant to be a safety next not a lifetimes income.

Most people seem to agree that 2low paid parents working should get some help with childcare.

But the new 1200 provision wont help them all as theirs 10k a year min.

when i left uni in southwales there was quite a few fulltime jobs in retail under 10 supervisors ect.

so the 2low paid parents pay very little tax or none at at all.

But they cant survive on that income as not enough for cost living so we pay them benefits tax credits to boost their income and pay large chunk of their rent.

what is their true contribution?

why is no 1 saying to them well thats all very well but its your life your kids go get a 2nd job?

im not going to count rising personal allowance as thats perk for all on first 10k.

Or child benefit as up to now that was universil.

its fair to concede people make a choice based on numbers, practicalities and support they have in life.

I know lots of sahm and working aparents whos grandparents have their kids an awful lot.

I think whats irked most sahm mums

is anomoly over child benefit which most people admit its stupid.
work hard and get on-whos that a dig at?
the new voucher system at 10k means mum whos works prat time less than 10hours but has middle income parter is deemed worthless, not working hard or getting on? getting onto what?
The new voucher system theshold is stupidly high if 60k deemed to high for child benefit why hell should it not be same for childcare?sahm mums and made them feel bit undervalued.

Then they come on mumsnet and loads working mums diss their choices and tell them to get a job they not contributing they worthless.

all thse things combined have irked

sahm dont want payment.
Thye dont want free childcare.
but the vouchers on 1parent working who pays a lot of tax not even that much money were a token I guess.

if higher rate tax threshold is 35 this year reducing to 32 k,

what is 35k minus tax and ni?

my guess is net its around 26k the amount they capping benefits.

benefits are not taxed so by time add up all the benefits of the low paid or the umemployed then they same or in some cases better off than sahm mum with husband who earns 35.

middle income mums are bit stuck they either

find job over 10k-unlikly to be part time at that rate.
go back fulltime but again would have to be decent if more than 1 child as even with the 1200 on my old 20k salary i be 1600 worse off.
or sahm get no subsidies and live off one income with rising rents, food bills, energy .

Well, having read the whole thing, this thread has been an eye-opener for me; such unaware privilege!

Mam you are right.

Most sahm's I know, aren't stinking rich, living in luxury. Yes this type obviously exist and are probably found more in affluent areas, but I wouldn't say they were the norm.
If you are a low income family as we are, and receiving tax credits, some wohm's do try and be superior and say they are paying for us to sah. Like we lobbied for tax credits. However, these are the same people who didn't turn down their cb if they didn't need it.
I am quite thick skinned and don't normally give a damn what people think, but can see why some sahm's are really upset by some of the things leveled at them. I don't care who thinks sahp's don't contribute to society, because I know I do. I can see why some people are offended by this.
Looking after children, bringing them up, giving them good values and belief system, nurturing, supporting, educating. The list is endless. If this isn't seen as a value to society then society is an ass. I know that wohp's do this as well but surely they don't think that the time they spend doing the above is of no value and only their paid work outside the home is of any value to society. Otherwise, without this value on raising children we might as well let them become feral, if nothing else is of value.

janey

I think there are many types of sahm, and obviously the ones wanting childcare are not the same people who are saying childcare is bad. I don't think I have seen anyone asking for recognition but apologies if I have missed this. Its quite simple really, tell somebody they are worthless, scrounging off others, whilst living in luxury, not contributing to society and I think they'll get the hump. Not so bizarre

Yes, quite a few people on here have said they want recognition specifically for being a SAHP.
I don't recall anyone on here saying SAHP are rubbish or worthless. Quite the opposite. Great if you want to be one. No problem .

Janey.

I think it is a general consensus from some people that a sahp is worthless. Not saying all wohms are saying this. The recognition thing I can only imagine is what I pointed out above that raising children is of use to society, whether you are sahp or wohp. Sometimes it seems like people are suggesting you are only worth anything if you pay tax. I must admit I have heard 2 people say this on threads such as these, more than once. As
I said though, it doesn't bother me, but I can sympathise with those that it does.

Maybe it's a minority opinion but it's not a general consensus.
Likewise a minority of people think WOHM are the work of the devil - see weewifeys posts upthread. What you need to do is recognise that these individuals are the ones with issues..
If you're content with your choices what's the problem ?

Maybe all the sahp's should register as childminders and bill their other halves for childcare provided. Then they could claim the benefit as both of them would be working

It's the assumption that sahp's are 'not working' that I find offensive. It's bloody hard work looking after kids especially if you got a bit carried away and had lots like me No one would think a full time employed housekeeper and nanny had an easy job, but the government's assumption that a sahp is "not working hard and getting on" is patronising and offensive. The same goes for anyone who is a carer IMO - no recognition and limited or no support.

Absolutely- but it's damn hard work combining parenting with a paid job too. If you're saying it's parenting which is undervalued, which seems to be what you're saying, then surely that applies across the board?
I mean, I'm a WOHM, so yes, I get recognition for that in the form of a salary. But no one comes and congratulates me for also being a parent and running a home. It doesn't particularly bother me, but let's at least be logical about it. Well done to ALL parents

As a working parent who needs to work to pay for mortgage and bills etc i am personally very happy that the government are helping those parents stay in a job by helping with childcare costs. Fed up of us workers being the only ones who dont get anything from the government when we are the only ones that contribute to the "pot". I am glad they have recognised this

Most the SAHMs I know are SAHMs precisely because they have low earnings potential, tend to be with similar-skilled partners, so work doesn't pay.

DH & have professional backgrounds & work still didn't pay for me (that and I'm not super mum, I couldn't juggle it all).

but I still think the present voucher system is poor, not targeted enough and too narrowly available. Given the govt. deficit problems, I think the proposed changes are reasonable.

It can be hard work with children but that applies whether you work or not.

The same goes for houseeeping, single adults still have to clean and do house admin likewise working parents do. They have to fit around their working hours too rather than having the luxury of the whole day every day to fit it in.

Unreasonable to suggest anyone should get recognition for housework and having children is a choice. People dont really have children for recognition do they?

Think about the implication people. You can use all the clever wording you like and try to tie yourself in knots to avoid being offensive but the past post just proves my point.

It implies that wohm do all that sahm do and manage to work as well. So by implication they are much more valuable and dynamic than sahp.

Staying at home all day with kids can be mindless, soul destroying, knackering and destroy your self-esteem. It can be hugely challenging and rewarding as well. It is not the same as working but it can be equally difficult. The challenges are different but it can be equally challenging. Keeping your head above water and avoiding depression and lack of self worth can be hard work. Motivating yourself and entertaining and enriching your children can be a monumental struggle.

I say this as someone who has done both. Please stop making dismissive statements about sahm and implying that wohm do everything that sahm do and more. These are the statements that make me wrestle with my choice. Sometimes I feel very stifled - I am educated and witty - I miss office banter and I miss feeling like part of something larger than my domestic life. Yes it is a choice, and sometimes I love it. I feel privileged that I have the choice. But it can also be very very hard.

In the interests of feminism lets have some solidarity and sisterhood and stop making barbed dismissive remarks loaded with implication about other people's choices. And that cuts both ways.

Like I said on a similar thread, parenting is hard work, if you do it well. Any fool can give birth or father kids, but actually parenting them and guiding them to become well adjusted individuals is tough, and that applies to ALL parents who do it to the best of their ability, working or not.
I'm sorry if you feel that a lot of what you do goes unrecognised partridge, but I don't think it's helpful to imagine slights that arent there. No one has used 'clever language' to try to denigrate SAHM.

I think I said earlier on this thread too (though I'm losing track as there are so many similar threads !) that as a WOHM I gain recognition for the working aspect through professional respect and my salary. Tbh I have never thought much about who I should gain recognition from as a parent (apart from my dh. Kids rarely thank you for parenting!!) But if there is a feeling generally that parenting is an undervalued skill, then let's value it for ALL parents who do it well. It just seems utterly divisive to try to make out its something which only applies to SAHP, and that it you combine parenting and running a home with paid work, you shouldn't get recognised for it.

"It implies that wohm do all that sahm do and manage to work as well"

For children of school age though this is surely the case? Certainly is in my case. Literally, I have to do everything a sahp does in between working and sleeping. I certainly don't expect any validation or recognitionn for it though . So why would I (or anyone) expect validation or recognition just by dropping the working element of that equation

Ok Janey, but being a sahm mother (to pre-school kids) is a different type of parenting for all the reasons I have outlined below.

Because a full-time working parent presumably uses after-school club and possibly breakfast club too. Most sahp have preschool children though in any case, and they do do more than wohp when it comes to childcare. Isn't that axiomatic? I woh because its a lot easier to go to work than look after a preschooler, and I find it saves my sanity. While I don't look after him, though, I don't delude myself - it means someone else has that hard work to do instead!

If you want me to elucidate further - when ds1 was in nursery I didn't have to think about ways to exhaustively change his routine, stimulate him differently, ensure he was learning social skills. I went to work with an expectation that my dh would share all the chores when I got home. Often I was exhausted - but I had much more patience with him and could throw myself into parenting him feeling stimulated, valued and refreshed.

It is totally different on all levels now that I am a sahm.