To Send DD on a School Trip

[SooticaTheWitchesCat]

...even though my husband is refusing to let her go?

Our DD is nearly 9 and this year they are having a school residential trip for 2 nights to an activity centre. DD really wants to go as all her friends are going and I think it would be great for her too.

DH on the other hand says there is no way she is allowed to go, that she is just a baby and that she can't be away from us overnight.

I think he is being totally unreasonable, she isn't a baby and if she doesn't go not only will she miss out on a great experience but she will feel left out because all her friends are going.

We have argued and argued about it he wont budge in but I am now thinking of just paying the deposit and saying she can go anyway in the hope I can convince him later.

Would that be wrong? I know it will cause more arguments but she has been so upset at the thought of not being able to go.

Well I guess that's where we differ.

I can see the value in school residential activities so I support my children in attending. However I don't see the need to send babies or toddlers off to sleep with grandparents overnight from a very young age, just to get used to being away from me so I didn't do that bit.

I don't feel free to judge parents who do send their babies to sleep with their grandparents when they are tiny and I don't feel free to judge those who don't think it's appropriate to send their 9 year olds away with their schools either.

I make different decisions from other parents but that doesn't mean I'm right and they are wrong.

Exactly. These parents might damage their future relationships with their children by restricting their activities but they won't affect their development and make them unable to leave home or be independent. My MIL is reaping the benefit of doing exactly that right now. DH lives 150 miles away and visits about twice a year. BIL lives in Sydney. They aren't damaged. They just cut the strings themselves when they were ready

I prefer to undo them slowly so there is no need to have an abrupt cutting. Of course mine might emigrate-they are perfectly free to do so-but the prime object will not to be get away. The DD in question knows perfectly well that her parents expected her to live close by-not get married and have grandchildren so far away that once every 2 years is the best they can hope for, and probably once every 5 years being realistic.

However I don't see the need to send babies or toddlers off to sleep with grandparents overnight from a very young age, just to get used to being away from me so I didn't do that bit

That wasn't the purpose-it was for both sides to have a lovely time without me.

As a primary school teacher, where the whole class were going I would be judgemental and say you were wrong (unless your DC didn't want to go-which is entirely different).

If she doesn't do the 2 days at 9yrs then a week in yr 6 will be more difficult and so will any secondary trips.

Even my stay at home DS enjoyed staying a night with granny-it was just home from home.

Goldmandra I didn't 'send' mine anywhere until they started school trips. DD1 had one in Yr2 - just one night, within half an hour of home. She's never been away from us overnight at that point but she was desperate to go, so we let her. She loved it.

I really think that in cases like this, where the trip is safe and there are no SEN or other health/risk reasons barring the way, the child's wishes have to be paramount. The OP's DD wants to go, the family can clearly afford it, she should be allowed to go - the father has voiced not a single reasonable objection, just unreasonable ones. Yes, I'm judging him. He deserves it.

Exotic Of course you'd prefer to undo the apron strings slowly! You've totally missed the point I was making to those who were suggesting that suffocating children prevented them from becoming independent.
You should absolutely do what you believe is right for your children. I'm also sure you had your own very good reasons for sending them to sleepover at GP's when very young. That is exactly how it should be because you were doing what was right for your own family.

I would be judgemental

Yes, I'm judging him

Well I suppose at least you're honest about it.

I never did say that it stopped them becoming independent. I said that it did one of two things- they either got their freedom and stayed well away or they were scared to go out in the world. I know both sorts. The example I gave is the most independent young woman I know- but she went to get away and make sure that she couldn't get back often.
Of course a teacher would be judgemental if the whole class was going, the DC was keen to go and yet had to have 2days left in school with another class because mother couldn't bear to be parted - and then had to put up with all the DCs talking about it when they got back- with all the pictures up on the classroom wall etc. + the worry about the next trip and the fact that they might well miss it again because mother thought you too young. The school would not run the trip if the DCs were too young. They are age appropriate trips.

Both my DDs have been on a music tour with school, part of which was to sing on the stage at Disneyland Paris. The girls who went were in year 6 and 7. (They didn't go together, the tour is run every year.)

Part of the trip involves being free to go around the park in groups, going on the rides etc. The groups must be of four or more, and they must check in with a teacher at specified time intervals during the day.

On both occasions, parents turned up at the park. (To be fair, in DD1's year, one girl had a severe medical condition, and the mother was very discreet, and kept herself unseen, but another mother turned up "to watch".)

In DD2's year, the mother of her close friend turned up with her grandmother, and her younger sister, and surprised them. (They thought it was unfair that the little one didn't get to go. I thought she would get her turn in a few years.)

The girl was mortified, as you can imagine! All the girls really pitied the children whose parents came along.

You would want the ground to swallow you up if you were the DC! Quite mortifying.

exotic others have posted opinions on this thread too.

I'm sure you will continue to feel justified in continuing to judge parents who have different values from your own, whatever I say so OK, judge away.

Will do.

Fine! [flouncing off emoticon]

Add me to the list of people judging him too if you like. There's no valid reason for his objections so is the OP going to face this every time the poor daughter gets the chance to try a new experience?

What will happen when her friends start having sleep overs? Or she wants to join brownies and go on camping trips? Etc etc.

Add me to the list of people judging him too if you like

It's not particularly him I was talking about Numberlock. I was just saddened by posters upthread accusing each other of not loving their children or suffocating them because people made different judgements about how much to let go and when.

I really hope the OP manages to get her DH to see the benefit of the activity and they can come to an agreement that works for their particular family, including the child concerned.

My son [English] is married to a Turkish lady and they have a dd who is now 13.The school have had at least two residentials to places of historic interest.Parents were given the option to go along and pay for hotel accommodation nearby.Some did but most didn't.My dd-i-l is a teacher at the school so went along anyway but she told me she would definitely have let dgd go without hesitation.Dgd regularly has sleepovers with her friends and they with her.She has had overnights with relatives since she was a baby.
In Turkish culture it is unusual for children not to stay with their grandparents fairly frequently.
I know Turkish fathers tend to be very very protective of their daughters but I have have never heard of one objecting to all sleepovers.

DD is going on an overnight trip this week. She is fragile at the moment (CAHMS referral pending which school know about) She may wet the bed (school know), is highly unlikely to brush either hair or teeth but keeping her off the trip would be incredibly isolating for her. Yes, I will worry about her but she needs to share experiences with her school friends. I trust her teachers and she will be less than an hour's drive away. Talk to the head or deputy and make an appointment for him to see them.

is highly unlikely to brush either hair or teeth

I think that's normal for these trips isn't it?

I will be the lone voice agreeing with you husband, my dd is 8 and I certainly won't let her go on a residential next year, overprotective maybe, there's still not a chance in hell I will pack my child off to spend 2 nights with adults I don't know, and she doesn't do sleepovers at school friends either, only with very close family, it's never come up so far but I am dreading next year

I expect you would be dreading it-she is going to be very upset and she will have to spend her time with another class with everyone asking her why she didn't go. They must be teachers at school that she is going with -are you saying they will be abusive? that you don't trust them? If I was still a Brownie leader I would not be at all happy at giving up my time for free when the mother didn't trust me on a camp. I can cope with 8yr olds-and if I couldn't I would phone the parent. It will come up more and more in the next few years.

I think parenting is generally quite scary but we decide to direct our particular fears to one or two situations, because that makes the overall fear more controllable/manageable. For example we have decided that strangers are dangerous and that children are at particular risk when they are not being cared for by close family members.

My partner does child protection work and I have volunteered on a phoneline for people who have survived abuse. So I'm aware that far, far more children get abused by family members than - say - strangers abducting them. So I'm not unduly worried by school trips. One of my most treasured possessions is the excited postcard my child wrote me from her Year 5 residentials.

I think one of the most common ways in which children are hurt relates to road traffic accidents. However most parents will take their children out in the car thinking, 'This is a perfectly safe thing to do'. There are no agonised Mumsnet debates on, 'Would you drive your kids up the busy motorway to go to the theme park.'

excellent post frau

Very sensible Frau-a lot of people seem to have lost the ability to risk assess.

As a foreign parent I can kind of empathise with the OP's dh's reaction of "Oh I don't see the need for this because there is no need for it in my culture".

It's a kind of desperate clinging on to the life you left behind, the parent you thought you'd be (in your country), the child you though you'd have (one that belonged to your culture).

But really, it is very parent centered, all about us rather than the child. As foreign parents, we have to accept that once we have chosen to have children in another culture, that is the culture they are growing up in and they need as many opportunities to be part of that as they would to be part of our culture, had we stayed in our own country.

Imo the "everybody has their own parenting style" is fine as long as the dc are little: a 6mo or a toddler isn't really going to notice if he is different from everybody else.

Once your dc get towards the secondary school stage, you have to take into account that it isn't just about your style of parenting versus other people's style of parenting: your dc will also start developing ideas of their own as to the kind of people they want to be.

Obviously, you need to stick to moral principles, of course, whatever happens, but I also think you need to distinguish between principles and parenting preferences.

My parents weren't particularly good at doing this: they tended to treat everything that was specific to them- their honesty, their reluctance to socialise with others, their hard work ethic, their love of the opera, their fondness for the sea and boating, their dislike of modern culture- as if they were all moral principles.

Didn't matter to my younger brother and me, who were happy to go along with the opera and keeping ourselves to ourselves, but it was horribly confusing for my elder brother who had totally different preferences and really was more comfortable around his peers and their pursuits, but felt inferior and ashamed about it.

I have tried to be more open-minded about the fact that e.g. my dc want to socialise in a way I never wanted. We discuss the risks but I would never try to hold them back just because I can't see the value of what they want. They are old enough to know what they want and my experience has to be used to help them to do it safely rather than tell them it is worthless.

well said cory