aibu to think brother and sil are snubbing my mother or is it just paranoia?

[Paje]

Bit of backstory: my mother and my sil have never really gelled but were cordial enough. Last summer, my brother (rather stupidly, imo) confided in a drunken call to our mother that he and sil were having issues. Mum offered a lot of (unsolicited) advice to the pair of them. For whatever reason, they only resumed contact at Christmas -and only because she sent them a card.
Anyway, mum sends them a 1st class letter tuesday last saying she is to visit briefly sunday and will they contact her to confirm. Saturday morning arrives and not a word from them. They eventually speak to mum but ONLY after my other sister called them (they never seem to pick up to mum-they have caller ID). They said they had other things on and couldn't see her. However, mum went anyway as she had other reasons to be in the area. She called them while in the area on the sunday and they went to see her briefly. But she says they were offhand and sil seemed to ignore her.

I think they're cutting her off. AIBU?

I don't really blame your sil tbh. I think this is your mums doing.

Oh and lots of men are not indifferent about seeing their mums.

You're right about that, Hecsy, OK when things are fine, maybe I can see that there's no point to visit. But when your own mother has a bad accident and you don't visit, maybe he just doesn't care about her at all.

It sounds like your mother does not like your SIL and has no made this very obvious. No wonder your SIL doesn't want to see her.

However, your brother could still contact his mother if he wanted to. It sounds like he doesn't. The 'oh silly men, they just don't understand the need to contact their mothers' narrative is ridiculous. People of both sexes keep up contact where they want a relationship with someone and let it slide where they don't really. From your perspective, this might seem like your brother is cutting your mother off because of one incident but there's probably much more to it than you know about. I wouldn't imagine that your mother is telling you the unedited truth about everything here.

I would be livid to receive a letter telling me that someone would be visiting on a particular date and that I should respond to confirm. I wouldn't reply and I'd screen the phone calls from the person, especially if i had already been limiting contact with that person.

I think alot of responsibility is unfairly being placed on SIL here. It is obvious that she has a previous strained relationship with her MIL and for that reason, there should be no expectation for her to make any sort of effort. It is your Brother that is to 'blame' for the snubbing. He is the one that has responsibility towards his relationship with his own Mother!
Indifference is a shit excuse, he obviously has his own bigger issues with your Mum if he can see no importance in seeing her. I would leave SIL out of the equation completely if I were you.

Don't try to make peace. You might not know the half of what's gone on and might make things worse again. If they have reacted like this to some unsolicited advice, how might they react to some well meaning but unwanted peace-making tactics?

You have asked us if we think they are cutting them out, and it sounds like they are distancing themselves to me. But it doesn't sound like you've spoken to them and heard their side of what went on. And unless they volunteer that information, don't assume you know or plunge in and ask them.

To the outside world, I could be your sister in law. If you listen to my MIL, I have never liked her, never made her feel welcome and cut her out overnight by making up a lot of lies about her.

If you listen to me, I had ten years of unwanted advice, bullying and harassment from her that culminated in outright cruelty, with MIL asking me, three days after a stillbirth "if it still hurts to give birth if your baby is dead." She never mentions that when she's telling the world how awful I am to cut her out, or the fact that I still tried to make a relationship work with her for a further two years after that comment (and it wasn't the only comment of that type) until the day that both MIL and FIL took turns to rant and and bully me over the course of several hours and I collapsed with a panic attack. They've tried to end my marriage, they have lied and twisted and controlled and manipulated.

And although I've said that here, most of the family have no idea what really went on, only have MIL's side of things, and believe I'm absolutely evil to have cut her out "overnight" and "for nothing."

What you know about might only be the tip of the iceberg and peace-making wouldn't sit well with me. If I hear the phrase "yes but they are still family" or "they are to old to change..." I will scream. MIL was only 48 when I married DH, she's 60 now, and I don't think that counts as too old to change or as "getting on a bit" and it's not just that I won't see them now, I can't, not without feeling sick at the thought and on the verge of another panic attack. They really are that bad.

Don't get involved, it only ever makes things worse.

Every time you mention you sil needing "a ticking off" or "being told a few home truths" I cringe a bit. It makes your mum sound quite nasty and a bully who wades in when people are at their lowest.
As for sending "a first class letter" to say she will be visiting is she the queen?

I say 1st class letter just to illustrate that she posted it on the tuesday via 1st class mail hence they should have got it next day yet no contact by saturday. To be honest, it's not about her being queenly

I can't get over sending a letter telling someone you will be visiting.

Not asking, telling.

That is incredibly rude.

Perhaps some of those home truths were things that can't be unsaid. Things that make you think, "If she really feels that way about me, then there's no point in continuing this relationship"

It doesn't matter who "started" the rift does it? The relationship is not wanted by one party. Your mother rudely imposed herself on them, they felt obliged to be there, but obviously and unsurprisingly didn't want to engage.

Perhaps your brother (who clearly has his own issues with his mother) felt that in the circumstances it was important to support his wife, and you should be proud of his decision to do that; wouldn't you want your partner to do the same thing in the same circumstances?

Are you the MIL Paje? If SIL has managed to keep things cordial prior to your brothers call for your brothers sake, putting up with comments over those years, than had your mother going into overdrive about how awful she is I can see completely why she's being cut off. I suggest you read some of the MIL from hell threads on here (and no, not all MILs are awful just the ones at the end of the spectrum!) to get an idea of your SIL's point of view, then realise that it might be for the best to butt out and leave them to it, after all, it was unwanted advice that started all this lot off in the first place.......
(and the letter would have wound me up too!)

That goes doubly so for the sort of person who thinks it's appropriate to go round giving unsolicited "home truths".

I agree that there are two sides.
My sil is t keen on me and probably heard her mum tell her how unreasonable dh and I were not wanting her and fil to stay overnight at our little house 2 days after a section bossing us around and demanding food.
But then sil has had no dc yet and couldn't possibly understand how it felt.
So I do understand that all she saw was an indignant upset mum so will obviously take her side as would I.
So it's probably best to stay impartial.
I did at Queenly though.

God no I'm not the mil! I'm just trying to be objective. They very much have done bad things to her in the past. She organised a dinner party to celebrate the birth of their first child. At the last minute, my son and her had an argument and despite a lot of people making an effort to turn up, they didn't show up.

I'm NOT saying my sil is to blame at all; just recognising that both 'sides' have behaved in less than a saintly way.

Sorry, that should be my 'brother' not son.

Really?
Interesting Freudian slip there Paje.

It also says a lot that your brother "doesn't care either way if he sees his mother or not."

SIL seems to be getting a lot of the blame here. You say that she's taking advantage of the fact that your brother won't organise a visit himself, to his own Mother. Why should she be the one who puts the effort into their relationship? If your brother isn't bothered either way, perhaps he is the one taking advantage of the situation so he doesn't have to put in the effort that SIL was previously doing for him. He's not a child, if he wants to see his mother he can make arrangements, and if he doesn't want to see her he won't appreciate you involving yourself as peace-maker.

And SIL putting the effort in for both of them when arranging to see your Mother, that's all well and good if she and your Mother got along, but you also say that your mother probably enjoyed laying into your SIL and that's hard to take when you have been working hard on a relationship on someone else's behalf.

You can't really blame her for thinking "if that's how she feels I'm just not going to bother anymore." Or blame her for your brother being too lazy or uninterested to have organised visits to his Mother himself before this falling out.

How old was the baby when MIL "organised" the meal?

The baby was six months old. Sil's parents were to look after the baby and the baby wasn't ill on the night.

I was peed off with my brother because I had travelled a long way for it-as had others- and frankly, so what if he and mum had fallen out? Other people were there too! This is just to illustrate that he and my sil can be awful, too. Sitting around that dinner table like lemons.

Faults on both sides.

x posted, sorry.

Yes there usually are two sides but that doesn't always equate to both sides sharing equal blame for a problem.

I said above, one of my MIL's complaints is that I haven't made her feel welcome in our house, and there are times when I have been unwelcoming to her.

One of my complaints is that MIL makes herself welcome no matter what, and the times I have been less than welcoming include the day when she has arrived for a week's stay with no warning and without asking if it was convenient, so the first we knew of it was when she arrived with bags on the doorstep (it wasn't convenient, and this wasn't a one off, it was a regular occurrence that happened at least three times a year).

Or the day before our son's funeral, when she accused us both of not being happy enough to see her and had a tantrum because we should have been more excited and not sounded so miserable (burying a child does tend to make you miserable).

And of course there were the days when she asked about giving birth still hurting and if our premature daughter who died was born with all of her face or did she have bits missing? Those were not days that made me feel very welcoming towards her.

So she's right. Sometimes I did not make her feel welcome in my house and I'm sure it hurt her feelings. If you only heard her side of the story you would think I was wrong to make her feel unwelcome, but when you hear mine, who sounds more to blame to you? Could you be welcoming to someone who took the worst time of your life and used it to be cruel to you, purposely or not?

Again, there being two sides doesn't always mean equal shares of any blame for the relationship turning sour.

But did they want the meal? Or had they been manipulated into it? If the baby was being looked after by someone else on the night, what made it a "special" meal?

It just sounds to me like a random meal that two of the guests were not able to attend. How did their absence stop everyone else form having a nice meal?

It also sounds like the sort of thing my mother would try and guilt me into, so I do feel quite defensive about this sort of family manipulation.

It really does soud as if your mother will have to accept that the relationship is over.

urgh
your mother sounds rude and interfering and stop assuming your sil is
pulling the strings re your brother not wanting to see your dm, sounds
as though he has his reasons!

What's the point of a meal to celebrate a birth if the baby isn't going to be there?

Maybe they had tried to tell her no but she wouldn't listen?

FPL-there are no words.

I don't think not attending a meal because you had an argument with your mother sounds like the behaviour of an 'awful' person. A dinner party to celebrate the birth of your now 6 month old baby doesn't sound like much of a special occasion tbh, especially if relations are already stranded between you and the host. Just because the baby wasn't ill and someone else would look after him/her, doesn't mean that your son brother and his wife have to attend. It's your mother's problem that she invited other people and then fought with her son beforehand.

Re: the letter thing. It doesn't matter when they would have received the letter. The letter itself was still rude, and your brother is under no obligation to respond (despite being ordered to confirm in the letter).

God I can imagine nothing worse than a meal to celebrate a babies birth.
It smacks of me me me from mil.

A meal to celebrate the birth of their child, six months later, without the child?!

It sounds like it was just a regular family get together to me. Did DM only bring up the reason for the meal after their absence I wonder? If they had a huge fight there is every chance they were 'uninvited' surely?