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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU re friend smacking? (Sorry, long)

102 replies

loopyluna · 12/03/2013 08:39

Back story -very good friend who has 7 yr old twins. I've known her for about 10 years and know how desperate she was to have them. She used to be a child-minder is someone that kids tend to adore. My DDs love her.

DTs are a real handful and always have been. Cheeky, bad-mannered and so willful. They have been through a lot as friend split from husband a year ago (not v amicably) and it's been hard on them all.

Anyway, friend has a temper. At the moment, she is having issues with her neighbours giving her stick about the children being too noisy, her divorce is imminent and she's v stressed.

However, yesterday we were walking home together after school and DTs were playing up as usual. They started bashing snow covered bushes on very narrow path, spraying us all with snow. Friend said "stop it" at least 4 times. One twin then ran on ahead but other twin then completely covered the dog in snow. I should have realised friend was at boiling point and bit my tongue, but I blurted out, "oh, that wasn't nice, poor dog..."

Friend then hit twin hard in the back with her school bag, enough to make her jerk forward but little madam turned round and said defiantly, "didn't hurt!" Cue friend completely losing it, slapping her DD on the face 3 times (my DD said twin managed to dodge and didn't get hit hard Hmm) and yelling at her.

She then got down to her DD's level to talk to her and I walked on ahead with another mum who used to be her next-door neighbour. She said something like, "phew, when she loses it, best just keep out the way..."

Everyone eventually calmed down and friend caught up with us and her DD wasn't even crying. (Mine were horrified though.)

WIBU to try to have a word with her today, or should I do as neighbour said, and leave it?
I don't want her to feel I'm judging her but she is clearly struggling and can't go on like this or she's going to end up hurting one of them Hmm

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 12/03/2013 08:46

Ask how she is? Say she seemed stressed and see if you can help. Not sure how you can discuss the smacking without a fallout. Perhaps say "well when my kids drive me to distraction I just have to..."

MrsDeVere · 12/03/2013 08:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dilys4trevor · 12/03/2013 08:49

I very much doubt she will end up hurting them. Decent people lose their rag under real pressure, but she has brought the twins up to this age without hurting them and you know her well and that she is not a child abuser.
Do encourage her to talk as she does sound like she is at the end of her tether but she'll only feel worse than ever to hear an old friend tell her she's worried that she will seriously harm her children, on top of everything else! I have a friend, a good mum, who slapped her her child around the face in extreme anger. She didn't fell good about it but it happened. I have also smacked in anger and then regretted it, but something inside stops decent people at heart from doing anything more.
Give her support but leave the 'worried for your kids' chat out of it.
That is my view anyway. I'm sure lots of people on here will disagree. The last smacking thread on here got completely out of hand. You are clearly a good friend anyway Smile

swallowedAfly · 12/03/2013 08:56

it depends what kind of friends you are right? i would focus on her - say i'd never seen her lose it like that and how does she feel she is coping generally? i have friends i could have that discussion with and it would all come out from there then again i have people i 'know' who are really just acquaintances who i wouldn't be able to perhaps.

it really depends on her - i'd be inclined to right mrs let's sit down and work out what you're going to do. cup of tea and what the fuck was all that about yesterday - that's not like you so you're obviously at your snapping point so what's the plan? but then that's me and my personality and friends would be used to me and my personality and friends with me as who i am rather than some pussyfooting stranger.

Original poster
loopyluna · 12/03/2013 08:56

Wolfie -that's it exactly. I don't want to fall out with her, especially as she feels the world's against her at the moment. I just think she needs to talk about things to clear her head a bit.
I know she wouldn't hurt the DTs but two things bother me -the way her DD reacted mostly. Mine would have bawled her eyes out if I started hitting her. It didn't take a feather out of this one which does make it look like it's not the first time. Also, the fact that she's going through a v nasty divorce and really shouldn't be giving her ex ILs any ammunition against her.

OP posts:
Startail · 12/03/2013 08:58

Either offer a bit of baby sitting or butt out. Some of us are not copy book parenting manual parents. I shout and have been known to smack persistently wilful small children.

You know what, I have the most delightful, confident 15y you could wish to meet and a right live wire of a 12y. Both work hard at school and still enjoy being hugged.

Your DF sounds stressed and in need of friendship and support, not criticism.

Original poster
loopyluna · 12/03/2013 08:58

Swallowedafly -think I'll do just that. Will dig myself a tunnel through the snow and take some cake and sympathy round to hers this morning!

OP posts:
Aworryingtrend · 12/03/2013 08:59

Yanbu at all to speak with her to try to get her to see her behaviour is inexcusable. im surprised other posters don't seem to think its that serious. my first thought was, if she is hitting them like that in public in front of friends what the heck might she be doing behind closed doors? if this had been the twins father who had done this I think you would get a very different response.

IneedAsockamnesty · 12/03/2013 09:00

If your friend was a bloke all hell would break lose.

saintlyjimjams · 12/03/2013 09:01

How about offering to have the kids (or one of them) every now and then. Probably more use than telling her she shouldn't hit them or lose her temper - which she presumably already knows. A bit of a break can work wonders for someone who is understandably struggling.

Original poster
loopyluna · 12/03/2013 09:03

Startail, that's good to know!
I don't have any parenting manuels personally so not sure what they dictate!
I also think DT are very hard to cope with, particularly these two. I didn't like seeing a 7 year old get slapped repeatedly around the face though. Glad your DV were fine about it.

OP posts:
Original poster
loopyluna · 12/03/2013 09:03

Sorry, DC, not v!

OP posts:
dilys4trevor · 12/03/2013 09:07

It doesn't matter if the smack was a first time or not. She probably does smack them as part of a discipline approach. Lots of people do. As you said yourself, she told the twin to stop it about 4 times. Clearly, smacking is a last, not a first, resort to her. That tells you most of what you need to know. As we know the law is a bit woolly about smacking, so apart from making a moral judgement, there isn't much you can really say to her without coming across as critical and judgmental (as opposed to helpful and supportive, which it sounds like you are).
Definitely go down the route of offering babysitting or time out, rather than having any kind of 'word' about yesterday.

Original poster
loopyluna · 12/03/2013 09:10

I do babysit a lot already. And she has my DD too. On Sunday, the DT tore the trampoline net, sat on DD's globe and kicked my yorkshire terrier in the face!
I want to be supportive, but if I have them over more than I already do, I might end up being the one smacking!!

OP posts:
TroublesomeEx · 12/03/2013 09:15

Don't have a word with her about it.

My parents hit me and I know that if anyone had challenged them on it then I'd have been hit as punishment for making them hit me and people subsequently thinking badly of them.

But I would offer to babysit. If she feels the world is against her, then be the person who isn't, give her the shoulder to cry on. It sounds like she's feeling under so much pressure she can't see which way is up at the moment.

If smacking is part of her parenting arsenal, then there's not much you can do to change that. If she used to be a childminder then she probably knows what she should be doing but at the moment can't do it. But if you can help her relieve some of the pressure in the short term, then she's less likely to resort to it too quickly.

TroublesomeEx · 12/03/2013 09:16

Oh, x post!

Branleuse · 12/03/2013 09:18

id avoid them. She should be the one coming to you to explain.

dilys4trevor · 12/03/2013 09:18

Ha - fair enough loopy! Shock
Maybe just tea and sympathy then.

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts · 12/03/2013 09:18

The twins' behaviour sounds very difficult to manage, even for someone who doesn't have this much stress on her plate. I wonder if some outside support could be beneficial? It is absolutely not ok for her to slap her child in the face, at all, ever. Can you, as a friend, gently suggest she approach someone for some help? Do you have a local Sure Start centre where she could offload onto someone and see if they can find better coping mechanisms for her stress?

Another thought - if the parents' split has been so hard on the kids that their behaviour has spiralled out of control, perhaps an art therapist or similar would help them work through their issues. They're probably about the right age (did you say 7?) for that approach. They can't continue to be such little fiends, and their mother can't continue to not cope with it.

littlehalo · 12/03/2013 09:24

If I saw a friend lose her temper, push an adult in the back and then smack them in the face three times I know what I'd do. Report her.

If this was a bloke or a teenage Mum off an estate I'm sure the responses here would be different.

WileyRoadRunner · 12/03/2013 09:26

It does sound like she needs some help at this moment in time. It might even be a case of just having a friend to talk to. It sounds like she is going through an incredibly tough time.

I don't think smacking a 7 year old repeatedly around the face is acceptable under any circumstances. But it sounds like she is on the edge and desperate. Help is needed to break the cycle before it ruins your friend's relationship with her twins.

I know that the separation has not been amicable but could the father possibly take them for a week/2 weeks over Easter to allow her some breathing space?

Imaginethat · 12/03/2013 09:26

I think it's pretty serious to hit the child in the face. Her smacking is about venting anger and nothing to do with effective discipline.

I don't know what to suggest though. If child protection services were alerted would she get the support she needed or just punishment? People like your friend need support, lots of it.

TroublesomeEx · 12/03/2013 09:27

Oh i'd missed the slapping in the face bit! Should have read better.

Actually, in that case, I would mention it to the school. They may well have some in house support that they can put in place.

If this was a bloke or a teenage Mum off an estate I'm sure the responses here would be different.

Sadly, I think you're right halo.

choceyes · 12/03/2013 09:27

*Don't have a word with her about it.

My parents hit me and I know that if anyone had challenged them on it then I'd have been hit as punishment for making them hit me and people subsequently thinking badly of them.*

A normal parent who very occassionally smacks out of despair, frustration and anger would not react like that. They would feel very guilty and will rethink their discipline methods. Your parents sound don't sound like this, I think there are bigger issues here.
I have very occassionally smacked my DS when he was horrible to his baby sister despite repeated warnings, but then I felt so guilty, anybody telling me off for it, like my DH did, I just felt so horrible and guilty I wanted to hug my DS and never let him go and said sorry over and over again.

StitchAteMySleep · 12/03/2013 09:28

If this was a man, people on here would be saying he assaulted his child, Police, LTB etc...

She clearly needs help, smacking once on the hand or leg is one thing, but slapping your child repeatedly around the face is not on and the fact that her dd was not more upset shows that this is not the first time she has lost it.

Maybe just go and have a cup of tea with her and give her a chance to talk, maybe if she can talk about the stresses in her life, then it will help her stay calm.

Sounds like her kids are reacting to the break up of the relationship too. Maybe some family therapy would help her, there are charities that offer it, it would help the kids too.

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