...to feel slightly annoyed when people claim to be "living in poverty"

[ihateconflict]

...and have huge TVs/smoke/drink/have a holiday abroad each year/wear designer clothes and shoes and handbags, and have all the latest electronic gadgets. In contrast, as a "middle class" (hate this label) professional living in an expensive area, i cant afford any of the above (dont smoke or drink, so dont include those). We havent had any holiday for 5 years, let alone one abroad. AND, when DCs were at school, their friends with EMA allowance were the ones who had driving lessons for their 17th birthday, and cars for their 18th birthday. My DCs had to pay for own driving lessons, and didnt get cars until they finished uni and were earning. I am full of sympathy for those in "genuine" poverty, but somewhere priorities and definitions seem a bit wrong

According to the government definition (not that I can remember the numbers) I am classed as living in poverty. However, I have a house with clean running water, I can afford to have the heating on almost as much as I'd like to. My children are well feed and we all have clothes, even if a lot of mine are hand me downs.

For those reasons, I would never say 'i live in poverty' however, the government would.

What is the governments definition of living in poverty?

I can't remember the figures, but I remember that I was classed as living in poverty because I was so shocked. I'll try and find it, but am on a phone which doesn't always google when I want.

mould on walls is very common, even my sister who is by no means poor gets mould on her walls and damp. That was always the case growing up - no money for the meter! The lights went out often! A Wii for the kids and poverty shouldn't even be in the same sentence!

Poverty is defined by the Government as ?household income below 60 percent of median income?. The median is the income earned by the household in the middle of the income distribution.

In the year 2004/2005, the 60% threshold was worth £183 per week for a two adult household, £100 per week for a single adult, £268 per week for two adults living with two children, and £186 per week for a single adult living with two children. This sum of money is after income tax and national insurance have been deducted from earnings and after council tax, rent, mortgage and water charges have been paid. It is therefore what a household has available to spend on everything else it needs.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom#section_2llink here

here

Ok chocolate I CBA anymore you are right all people in the UK should be grateful for everything they get and you sister is living in a health hazard

4 basics, wherever you are in this world ,a house /dwelling of some sort ,clothing,food and a source of heat (excluding the sun !) everything else is iceing on the cake >say as thou wish/will ,one persons luxury is anothers essential.my sister recently gave away a 40" flat screen tv (cos she so needed a much bigger one)she gave it to an unemployed friend of mine ,I ,a while ago gave my car to a friends daughter (single mother ,working) cos she really needed it and i did not (i am unemployed)very little is as it is seen.

It is a case of being grateful yes. People come to this country to escape the poverty life they have in the countries they come from. Talk to people who live in the UK that come from these countries - they will tell you what real poverty is and hopefully tell you to look at what we have here and be bloody grateful we don't allow the poorest people and their children to live like those in poverty abroad.

My sister just needs to learn that air ventilation and a clean down will help prevent mould!

I think some people are deliberately misunderstanding the OP.

She's not saying it's not shit to be poor. She's not saying that she is poor. she also said that she hates the label middle-class. She may not have brought up her husband's health as she may not have seen it relevant.

She is just questioning how some people can describe themselves as poor when they feel able to spend money on iPads and other unnecessary items. And that this description of themselves as living in poverty annoys her when she sees others who she feels genuinely live in poverty.

This might be misguided as it's funded by debt and creates a short-term boost to self-esteem

But iI don't think she meant it as an attack on any group but more on the consumerist values of society that might make people value spending on stuff and then feeling poor.

As an example she was saying that she doesn't feel the same compulsion to spend money she doesn't have. She was being sympathetic about the people who have absolutely nothing and no safety net that she sees in her job.

But aren't there horrible adverts on daytime tv aimed at those not working (whether pensioners, SAHM, millionaires or the unemployed) encouraging people to spend money they don't have. Isn't it ok to be frustrated at that? And to think that if you do have that money then you are not really, genuinely poor? (although when I was broke i spent any money I got on anything and smoked loads because j couldn't see a way out) but the point is I dont think it makes her uncaring to question it.

I particularly like the way The jeremy kyle show is sponsored by online bingo sites

When I had DS1 nearly 17 years ago I was on benefits and it really was a struggle. At one point they stopped my benefits because at the time they would chase dads to pay instead so would put a hold on your money even though you no way of getting by. I got a crisis loan of £84 which I had to stretch for two months. I then had to pay it back at £20 a week for four weeks when I only got just over £80 in the first place. I got behind on my rent and my housing officer took me to court to evict me two weeks before Christmas even though my child was about 18 months. Luckily it got thrown out of court and the judge was really angry that it had gone that far.

Everything in my house had been given to me. I had a portable tv on a plastic chair in my living room and it took me five years before I had enough money for carpet or flooring in every room.I had a job in an office on a scheme that was like YTS. I got £50 a week which got topped up to £80 by income support but only part of my childcare was paid so I ended up out of pocket. I worked in quite a posh office and I remember that I had big holes in the soles of my shoes. I went out and stepped in a puddle on my lunch. I had to sit at my desk with shoes full of stinking stagnant water.

I still never considered myself to be living in poverty though. I remember watching Richard and Judy and they were collecting gifts for Christmas to give out to single mums in poverty and I though aw, that's nice then I realised the the type of people they were giving to we're like me and I felt horrified.

I have friends now who are single parents and I think it is (slightly) easier, especially as they don't take maintenance out of your benefits any more. My friends can afford things that I couldn't(definitely not foreign holidays though!), either by saving, renting or loans. I don't know why any one would think this was a bad thing! I really worry what will happen when the system changes later in the year.

I think alot of it is lack of education on certain things and the next generation are brought up to do the same things and it's a vicious circle. Basic things like learning how to cook (which is healthier and cheaper,) learning how to budget and knowing what is priority and what is luxury. These things aren't taught and so people end up in bad situations because they know no different.

Like someone i work with who would describe herself as poor saying to me how Costa coffee is expensive and a waste of money (after i said i enjoy a costa coffee every now and then.) My reply: Well i enjoy the odd £2.00 coffee yes but i don't smoke like you do and spend over £2.00 everyday on fags so the odd £2.00 coffee is actually a cheaper luxury.

I don't care that she smokes but my point with her was how she moans she is poor and sighed at me for buying a £2.00 coffee every now and then and implied how nice it must be to be rich (rich in her eyes not in reality) yet she spends £2.00 or more EVERYDAY on fags.

I have seen mold on walls...nearly always caused by poor ventilation due to overcrowding or a building issue. Its not always a case of just washing the walls down. That helps but it won't solve whatever the underlying issue is which causes it.

Trust me on this chocolate, I have a degree in public health!

I totally agree with you about education though.

Luxuries! Yes, that's the one I forgot about! They all just want luxuries. Those should only be for the rich. I still call HOUSE and would like my free iPhone.

MrsDeVere, i never took a gap year because there was nothing to take a gap year from. I left school at 16 and the day after i had a job in a hotel chambermaiding because it was a case of i worked or i had no money, Uni was never an option. I grew up living in a one bedroom flat above a shop with my mum and sister. We were the poor kids with hand me downs, the essentials not luxuries, no car, no takeaways, no meals out, no holidays (ever,) no days out, no birthday parties etc. The people you keep describing were me and my family - but we weren't living in poverty!

It's like Hamdangle has described - we weren't living in poverty, we were poor and that was it. I still think i had a great childhood though even though we had nothing.

Going on a school trip to Alton towers wouldn't have even been an option, the fiver for the key meter was the priority! That was how it was - priority before luxury.

Slightly more up to date definition

www.poverty.org.uk/01/index.shtml

Poverty IMHO is what a teenage girl defined it as to me, not knowing where your next meal is coming from and your parents going hungry so they can feed and clothe you. She lived in a house with no carpets or curtains and she was so proud of her parents for pulling through by setting up their own business and bringing the family out of poverty. Truly inspirational story. Unlike the other young people I spoke to who said poverty was not having the latest gadgets your friends do. It's views like that which make me sympathise with the OPs original point.

Sorry expat - you obviously want some kind of socialist utopia where everyone should have the same regardless of what they earn.

I believe you should 'cut your coat according to your cloth' which is why unlike most of the British population I have never been in debt (other than mortgage)

While I appreciate that sometimes circumstances dictate that you need a loan to tide you over in difficult times I don't believe that it is sensible to get up to your eyes in debt so your children can all have ipads.

do all poor people smoke?

I worked as a manager for iceland as well, I never once judged my customers, nor would I have wanted to

this thread has made me so angry that i think I may have to hide it

ahh well if you don't want some kind fo social utopia, do poor peoples children die whilst the other ones live? It's a question because there was a thread like this recently that bemoaned those that had never paid tax using the nhs and I have a severely disabled child, one who will never work and she uses the nhs more than I or my husband have ever used it. Should she be left to die really? a vulnerable young lady? I might have paid more than many of you on this thread in tax, do i think I am more deserving, no? do i tink my child needs medical care and should get it because I have paid tax? yes if I hadn't paid tax do i think she should still get it, hell yes
it's called a progressive society, one in which everyone of worth is of value

Thanks for the more recent link calamity I copied and pasted the 1St one I found.

Based on the newer figures, I'm even more in 'poverty' then I thought!

JakeBullet - absolutely, it's normally a building issue or poor ventilation. My point was, ventilating and washing the walls won't solve the root of the problem no but it does help keep it in control. So often i have been in places where the mould gets worse and worse and they moan, yet they do nothing to help control it at all. If i left my windows they would go mouldy very quickly but often i wash them down and dry them and open windows to help prevent it.

In response to those talking about people on 40k plus incomes feeling 'poor' I certainly found this an enlightening tool when doing my poverty projects.

www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/

I thought my household income was 'average' as I'm friends with people who earn more and earn less. Turns out our household is in the top 10% of the UK population. I did not expect that - try it yourself.